Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

[Jon Erik Ween]

Maybe the name should be R? I use SPSS less and less.

Jon

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon Erik Ween, MD, MS
Scientist, Kunin-Lunenfeld Applied Research Unit
Director, Stroke Clinic, Brain Health Clinic, Baycrest Centre
Assistant Professor, Dept. of Medicine, Div. of Neurology
     University of Toronto Faculty of Medicine

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On 2009-09-23, at 9:23 PM, SR Millis wrote:

> Perhaps a more a appropriate name for SPSS is PASWAHHH!!!  I hear
> the crying starting!!
>
>
>
>
>
> --- On Wed, 9/23/09, Barnett, Adrian (DECS)
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> From: Barnett, Adrian (DECS) <[hidden email]>
>> Subject: Re: Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Date: Wednesday, September 23, 2009, 8:17 PM
>> Hi Marta
>> I wonder if you would be allowed by your local SPSS office
>> to have new licence keys for V15 in view of the difficulties
>> with the hardware available to your university? I can't see
>> how you would be violating the spirit of your licence terms
>> by doing this so I'd hope the local office would see reason
>> and help you.
>>
>> I have had to do the same thing, and my local office here
>> were very helpful in allowing me to keep using 15 due to a
>> problem I was having with a bug in 16 and 17 that stopped an
>> important program of mine from working.
>>
>> For the work I do, I have been grateful that SPSS have been
>> making changes to the software that allow it to take
>> advantage of greater RAM and multiple processors/cores. I
>> tend to have to deal with really big data sets that have
>> been challenging to run on even high end hardware (since the
>> older software wasn't able to take proper advantage of it).
>>
>> The teaching function is of course a different matter, with
>> different constraints, as you point out.
>>
>> Greater flexibility with licensing might be an answer, and
>> failing this, maybe a 'Lite' version would help?
>>
>> I think it would be very much in the interests of SPSS Inc
>> to accommodate universities, as this is where their future
>> customers will come from. Digital Equipment Corporation
>> learned this lesson in the late 70s with the terms they
>> offered universities for their VAX hardware, and it worked
>> very well till the success it led to in the corporate area
>> made them think they didn't need universities any more.
>> Things went downhill pretty fast after that, although
>> companies like Sun did pretty well in filling the vacuum.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> Adrian Barnett
>> Information Analyst
>> Educational Measurement and Analysis
>> Data Management
>> DECS
>> ph 82261080
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]]
>> On Behalf Of Marta García-Granero
>> Sent: Wednesday, 23 September 2009 11:07 PM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?
>>
>> This is a question I want to address to any spss-dot-com
>> people who
>> might be checking the list.
>>
>> Tomorrow (CET time) we have a meeting at the University of
>> Navarra to
>> decide whether we keep on using SPSS/PASW or switch to a
>> different
>> statistical package (Stata seems to be favored by some
>> people). I am
>> right now gathering information from every participant
>> (people who use
>> SPSS for teaching and research) about their grudges.
>>
>> Main item is: everybody seems annoyed (very) by the policy
>> of a new
>> version every year. We have to adapt our class notes,
>> slides,
>> exercises... every year to the new version (since, many
>> times, output
>> changes, screenshots of the program change too...). Some of
>> them are not
>> only teachers, but busy researchers, and the time needed to
>> modify the
>> teaching stuff is not easy to get. Some of them even said
>> that if SPSS
>> 15 can't be used for several more years, then they don't
>> want the
>> program at all and will only use Stata (they are using it
>> right now
>> along with SPSS 15).
>>
>> Besides, computers used for teaching (500 is an
>> underestimation of the
>> true number) are not brand new (rather old would be a
>> better
>> description). Typical description of one of them, used for
>> teaching
>> Office, SPSS, Procite...: 1 Gb RAM, 2 Ghz processor (no
>> dual processors,
>> and let's not even mention quad processors), with Windows
>> XP SP3. In
>> those computers, SPSS 15 runs quite well (although we are
>> getting used
>> to interrupt the class briefly while some student has to
>> recover from a
>> catastrophic error that closes suddenly SPSS 15, it happens
>> up to 5
>> times in a 2 hours class, it can be irritating), but we
>> tried PASW 17/18
>> and the results were awful: the program crawls, even with
>> the simplest
>> t-test or ANOVA, because the hardware is well behind the
>> software. Since
>> novice students don't benefit from the advantages of the
>> new PASW
>> versions (Python, R, new syntax editor,
>> programmability...), we are
>> wondering why we can't stick to SPSS 15 for at least 3-5
>> years, until
>> the turnover of the computers (to more powerful machines)
>> is completed,
>> and new versions of PASW can be run without having to look
>> at the screen
>> for a very long time until the output is finally
>> delivered.
>>
>> We don't need the newest PASW version on a brand new
>> computer to teach
>> the fundamental of statistics to students, we'd rather have
>> a reliable
>> (well, sort of) older version. Can we have that or should I
>> surrender
>> tomorrow and say "all right people, let's use Stata"?.
>>
>> Hoping I will not have to abandon my life long friend (my
>> relation with
>> SPSS started with SPSS/PC+),
>> Marta García-Granero
>>
>> --
>> For miscellaneous SPSS related statistical stuff, visit:
>> http://gjyp.nl/marta/
>>
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