SPSSX Discussion

Disabling the click-point menu

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Juanito Talili

Disabling the click-point menu

Hi everyone,

Is it possible to disable the menu for the "point-click" function of SPSS, while retaining the syntax functional? That is, for example, the "factor analysis" will no longer be found in the menu but it would still working through syntax.

This is needed in class when we teach syntax and we dont allow participants to do it through point click.

Thank you.

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====================To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to
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For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command
INFO REFCARD

ViAnn Beadle

Re: Disabling the click-point menu

You might try to customize the menus but I'm not sure if customization allows you to remove something. If you look at the student's syntax it is fairly easy to tell whether they typed it in themselves. Are you also going to try to prevent them from copying blocks of syntax from the help system?

Soapbox on:
Skilled and efficient users learn from the UI (menus and dialog boxes) and use them as needed to generate all the tedious boilerplate commands. It's more important to test whether the user understands what is generated and can build upon it than to test their ability to type.
Soapbox off:

-----Original Message-----
From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Juanito Talili
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 3:30 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Disabling the click-point menu

Hi everyone,

Is it possible to disable the menu for the "point-click" function of SPSS, while retaining the syntax functional? That is, for example, the "factor analysis" will no longer be found in the menu but it would still working through syntax.

This is needed in class when we teach syntax and we dont allow participants to do it through point click.

Thank you.

Get your preferred Email name!
Now you can @ymail.com and @rocketmail.com.
http://mail.promotions.yahoo.com/newdomains/ph/

=======
To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to
[hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the
command. To leave the list, send the command
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For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command
INFO REFCARD

=====================
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[hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the
command. To leave the list, send the command
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For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command
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Art Kendall

Re: Disabling the click-point menu

Those who follow this list know that I consider the use of syntax to be
extremely important.
However, as long as students understand that developing a set of syntax
is an process of repeated development as any other writing is, I
consider the use of the GUI a very good tool for writing the first draft
of sections of syntax.

Among the reasons for rewriting:
1) the user becomes more advanced in his/her understanding of SPSS and
statistics 2) the user becomes more advanced in her/his understanding of
the data at hand
3) the user wants to try different approaches and options, 4) he/she
may want to make the syntax more readable to him/her self and others, 5)
reviewers may suggest/demand changes, etc.

Art Kendall
Social Research Consultants

ViAnn Beadle wrote:

> You might try to customize the menus but I'm not sure if customization allows you to remove something. If you look at the student's syntax it is fairly easy to tell whether they typed it in themselves. Are you also going to try to prevent them from copying blocks of syntax from the help system?
>
> Soapbox on:
> Skilled and efficient users learn from the UI (menus and dialog boxes) and use them as needed to generate all the tedious boilerplate commands. It's more important to test whether the user understands what is generated and can build upon it than to test their ability to type.
> Soapbox off:
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Juanito Talili
> Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 3:30 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Disabling the click-point menu
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> Is it possible to disable the menu for the "point-click" function of SPSS, while retaining the syntax functional? That is, for example, the "factor analysis" will no longer be found in the menu but it would still working through syntax.
>
> This is needed in class when we teach syntax and we dont allow participants to do it through point click.
>
> Thank you.
>
>
> Get your preferred Email name!
> Now you can @ymail.com and @rocketmail.com.
> http://mail.promotions.yahoo.com/newdomains/ph/
>
> =======
> To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to
> [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the
> command. To leave the list, send the command
> SIGNOFF SPSSX-L
> For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command
> INFO REFCARD
>
> =====================
> To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to
> [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the
> command. To leave the list, send the command
> SIGNOFF SPSSX-L
> For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command
> INFO REFCARD
>
>
>

Art Kendall
Social Research Consultants

John Amora

Re: Disabling the click-point menu

In reply to this post by Juanito Talili

Hi Juanito,

In case you have already received answers of your question off-list, please email them to me. Hope SPSS personnel could read your message.

Thank you.
JT Amora

--- On Mon, 9/8/08, Juanito Talili <[hidden email]> wrote:
From: Juanito Talili <[hidden email]>
Subject: Disabling the click-point menu
To: [hidden email]
Date: Monday, 8 September, 2008, 5:29 PM

Hi everyone,

Is it possible to disable the menu for the "point-click" function of
SPSS, while retaining the syntax functional? That is, for example, the
"factor analysis" will no longer be found in the menu but it would
still working through syntax.

This is needed in class when we teach syntax and we dont allow participants to
do it through point click.

Thank you.

Get your preferred Email name!
Now you can @ymail.com and @rocketmail.com.
http://mail.promotions.yahoo.com/newdomains/ph/

====================To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to
[hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the
command. To leave the list, send the command
SIGNOFF SPSSX-L
For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command
INFO REFCARD

New Email names for you!
Get the Email name you've always wanted on the new @ymail and @rocketmail.
Hurry before someone else does!
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====================To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to
[hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the
command. To leave the list, send the command
SIGNOFF SPSSX-L
For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command
INFO REFCARD

John Amora

Re: Disabling the click-point menu

In reply to this post by Art Kendall

Hi John Peck and SPSS,

Juanito wrote:
> Is it possible to disable the menu for the "point-click"
function of SPSS, while retaining the syntax functional? That is, for example,
the "factor analysis" will no longer be found in the menu but it would
still working through syntax.

> This is needed in class when we teach syntax and we dont allow
participants to do it through point click.

Then Art wrote:
Those who follow this list know that I consider the use of syntax to be
extremely important.
However, as long as students understand that developing a set of syntax
is an process of repeated development as any other writing is, I
consider the use of the GUI a very good tool for writing the first draft
of sections of syntax.

Among the reasons for rewriting:
1) the user becomes more advanced in his/her understanding of SPSS and
statistics 2) the user becomes more advanced in her/his understanding of
the data at hand
3) the user wants to try different approaches and options, 4) he/she
may want to make the syntax more readable to him/her self and others, 5)
reviewers may suggest/demand changes, etc.

I want to hear your comments.

Thanks.
Johnny

--- On Tue, 9/9/08, Art Kendall <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: Art Kendall <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: Disabling the click-point menu
To: [hidden email]
Date: Tuesday, 9 September, 2008, 12:51 AM

Those who follow this list know that I consider the use of syntax to be
extremely important.
However, as long as students understand that developing a set of syntax
is an process of repeated development as any other writing is, I
consider the use of the GUI a very good tool for writing the first draft
of sections of syntax.

Among the reasons for rewriting:
1) the user becomes more advanced in his/her understanding of SPSS and
statistics 2) the user becomes more advanced in her/his understanding of
the data at hand
3) the user wants to try different approaches and options, 4) he/she
may want to make the syntax more readable to him/her self and others, 5)
reviewers may suggest/demand changes, etc.

Art Kendall
Social Research Consultants

ViAnn Beadle wrote:
> You might try to customize the menus but I'm not sure if customization
allows you to remove something. If you look at the student's syntax it is
fairly easy to tell whether they typed it in themselves. Are you also going to
try to prevent them from copying blocks of syntax from the help system?
>
> Soapbox on:
> Skilled and efficient users learn from the UI (menus and dialog boxes) and
use them as needed to generate all the tedious boilerplate commands. It's
more important to test whether the user understands what is generated and can
build upon it than to test their ability to type.
> Soapbox off:
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
Juanito Talili
> Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 3:30 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Disabling the click-point menu
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> Is it possible to disable the menu for the "point-click"
function of SPSS, while retaining the syntax functional? That is, for example,
the "factor analysis" will no longer be found in the menu but it would
still working through syntax.
>
> This is needed in class when we teach syntax and we dont allow
participants to do it through point click.

>
> Thank you.
>
>
> Get your preferred Email name!
> Now you can @ymail.com and @rocketmail.com.
> http://mail.promotions.yahoo.com/newdomains/ph/
>
> =======
> To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to
> [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the
> command. To leave the list, send the command
> SIGNOFF SPSSX-L
> For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command
> INFO REFCARD
>
> =====================
> To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to
> [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the
> command. To leave the list, send the command
> SIGNOFF SPSSX-L
> For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command
> INFO REFCARD
>
>
>

=====================
To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to
[hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the
command. To leave the list, send the command
SIGNOFF SPSSX-L
For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command
INFO REFCARD

New Email addresses available on Yahoo!
Get the Email name you've always wanted on the new @ymail and @rocketmail.
Hurry before someone else does!
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====================To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to
[hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the
command. To leave the list, send the command
SIGNOFF SPSSX-L
For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command
INFO REFCARD

Peck, Jon

Re: [BULK] Re: Disabling the click-point menu

See below.

________________________________

From: Johnny Amora [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 9:08 PM
To: [hidden email]; Peck, Jon
Subject: [BULK] Re: Disabling the click-point menu
Importance: Low

Hi John Peck and SPSS,

Juanito wrote:

> Is it possible to disable the menu for the "point-click"
function of SPSS, while retaining the syntax functional? That is, for example,
the "factor analysis" will no longer be found in the menu but it would
still working through syntax.

> This is needed in class when we teach syntax and we dont allow
participants to do it through point click.

Then Art wrote:

Those who follow this list know that I consider the use of syntax to be
extremely important.
However, as long as students understand that developing a set of syntax
is an process of repeated development as any other writing is, I
consider the use of the GUI a very good tool for writing the first draft
of sections of syntax.

Among the reasons for rewriting:
1) the user becomes more advanced in his/her understanding of SPSS and
statistics 2) the user becomes more advanced in her/his understanding of
the data at hand
3) the user wants to try different approaches and options, 4) he/she
may want to make the syntax more readable to him/her self and others, 5)
reviewers may suggest/demand changes, etc.

I want to hear your comments.

Thanks.

Johnny

[>>>Peck, Jon]

My opinion would be influenced a bit by a better understanding of the context.

What kind of course is this? At what level?

And what is the intended purpose of the prohibition of using the point and click interface?

But for a typical data analysis/statistics course, even at a graduate level, I don’t see any reason to prohibit use of the gui. If the course is about statistical ideas, syntax is a means to an end, and having to memorize a long list of command names, keywords and grammatical rules serves no purpose in my opinion. In fact, it detracts from the pedagogic value of the course, since time has to be spent on straightening out syntax issues that could be better spent on the substance. And it certainly makes the material less attractive for the students.

Back in the dark ages when I taught econometrics to graduate students, we didn’t have guis, so we did spend more time than I would have liked on issues that really had nothing to do with the substance of the courses. (And this was long before my acquaintance with SPSS.) A friendly gui such as we now have with SPSS or other products would have been a great boon.

By this, I don’t mean at all to deprecate the value of being able to use syntax. I also think that people studying English (or other language) composition should learn how to spell. But that’s a nether layer that shouldn’t interfere with the main goals. Spell checkers and the SPSS Paste buttons are a big win.

Syntax is especially important in areas where point and click doesn’t work very well such as complex transformations and database operations and programming statistical or other algorithms. It’s also essential for production types of operations and reading command logs. But generating commands from the dialogs relieves the burden of memory while allowing the student to focus on the logic. I myself don’t remember the syntax definitions of the vast collection of SPSS commands. Understanding syntax has practical value in many ways, and knowing how to read a syntax chart is useful. Those skills can be tested in other ways.

The ability to work in ones native language, not available in syntax, is also an important consideration in the non-English speaking world.

If you prohibit the use of the gui, then what about the convenience of the new SPSS Statistics 17 syntax editor? Should that, too, be prohibited, since it helps with command completion and error checking?

If you want to critique a student’s approach, an annotated log of what they did might be an effective way to interact, but reading is not writing.

My opinion,

Jon

--- On Tue, 9/9/08, Art Kendall <[hidden email]> wrote:

________________________________

John Amora

Re: [BULK] Re: Disabling the click-point menu

Jon,
I respect your opinion. All are non-debatable. However, the main idea of Juanito's question, which I would want to hear also the answer, was not addressed. Please, disregard the issue of the practicality of the question. Just assume instead that in a certain situation, we need to temporarily disable the GUI and while disabled the syntax is still functional.   The question is "Is it possible"?

Thank you.
Johnny

--- On Wed, 9/10/08, Peck, Jon <[hidden email]> wrote:
From: Peck, Jon <[hidden email]>
Subject: RE: [BULK] Re: Disabling the click-point menu
To: [hidden email], [hidden email]
Date: Wednesday, 10 September, 2008, 11:10 PM

See below.



From: Johnny Amora
[mailto:[hidden email]]

Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008
9:08 PM

To: [hidden email];
Peck, Jon

Subject: [BULK] Re: Disabling the
click-point menu

Importance: Low



Hi John Peck and SPSS,

Juanito wrote:

> Is it possible to disable the menu for the
"point-click"

function of SPSS, while retaining the syntax functional? That is,
for example,

the "factor analysis" will no longer be found in the menu but it
would

still working through syntax.

> This is needed in class when we teach syntax and we dont allow

participants to do it through point click.

Then Art wrote:

Those who follow this list know that I consider the
use of syntax to be

extremely important.

However, as long as students understand that developing a set of syntax

is an process of repeated development as any other writing is, I

consider the use of the GUI a very good tool for writing the first draft

of sections of syntax.

Among the reasons for rewriting:

1) the user becomes more advanced in his/her understanding of SPSS and

statistics 2) the user becomes more advanced in her/his understanding of

the data at hand

3) the user wants to try different approaches and options, 4) he/she

may want to make the syntax more readable to him/her self and others, 5)

reviewers may suggest/demand changes, etc.

I want to hear your comments.

Thanks.

Johnny
[>>>Peck,
Jon]
My opinion
would be influenced a bit by a better understanding of the context.
What kind of
course is this? At what level?
And what is
the intended purpose of the prohibition of using the point and click
interface?

But for a
typical data analysis/statistics course, even at a graduate level, I don’t
see any reason to prohibit use of the gui. If the course is about
statistical ideas, syntax is a means to an end, and having to memorize a long
list of command names, keywords and grammatical rules serves no purpose in my
opinion. In fact, it detracts from the pedagogic value of the course, since
time has to be spent on straightening out syntax issues that could be better
spent on the substance. And it certainly makes the material less attractive
for the students.

Back in the
dark ages when I taught econometrics to graduate students, we didn’t have
guis, so we did spend more time than I would have liked on issues that really
had nothing to do with the substance of the courses. (And this was long
before my acquaintance with SPSS.) A friendly gui such as we now have with
SPSS or other products would have been a great boon.

By this, I don’t
mean at all to deprecate the value of being able to use syntax. I also think
that people studying English (or other language) composition should learn how
to spell. But that’s a nether layer that shouldn’t interfere with the main
goals. Spell checkers and the SPSS Paste buttons are a big win.

Syntax is
especially important in areas where point and click doesn’t work very well
such as complex transformations and database operations and programming statistical
or other algorithms. It’s also essential for production types of operations
and reading command logs. But generating commands from the dialogs relieves
the burden of memory while allowing the student to focus on the logic. I
myself don’t remember the syntax definitions of the vast collection of SPSS
commands. Understanding syntax has practical value in many ways, and knowing
how to read a syntax chart is useful. Those skills can be tested in other
ways.

The ability to
work in ones native language, not available in syntax, is also an important
consideration in the non-English speaking world.

If you
prohibit the use of the gui, then what about the convenience of the new SPSS
Statistics 17 syntax editor? Should that, too, be prohibited, since it helps
with command completion and error checking?

If you want to
critique a student’s approach, an annotated log of what they did might be an
effective way to interact, but reading is not writing.

My opinion,
Jon

--- On Tue, 9/9/08, Art Kendall <[hidden email]>
wrote:





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====================To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to
[hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the
command. To leave the list, send the command
SIGNOFF SPSSX-L
For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command
INFO REFCARD

Peck, Jon

Re: [BULK] Re: Disabling the click-point menu

What you would want, I suppose, is the frontend without the Analyze menu and, perhaps, some others. The startup code for the front end builds the menus based on what is licensed, but there is no practical way to expose the menu configuration for tailoring by users. OTOH, you could use the user interface language switching feature of SPSS Statistics 17 to put the system in a language unknown to the students. That would make all the user interface text opaque, though. (The output language is controlled separately.)

The Server version comes with SPSSB, which has no user interface, but the output would just go to a file in that case. The SmartReader could then display it without allowing for procedures to be run.

That would have to be a feature request to marketing.

Regards,

Jon

________________________________

From: Johnny Amora [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 7:20 PM
To: [hidden email]; Peck, Jon
Subject: RE: [BULK] Re: Disabling the click-point menu

Jon,
I respect your opinion. All are non-debatable. However, the main idea of Juanito's question, which I would want to hear also the answer, was not addressed. Please, disregard the issue of the practicality of the question. Just assume instead that in a certain situation, we need to temporarily disable the GUI and while disabled the syntax is still functional. The question is "Is it possible"?

Thank you.
Johnny

--- On Wed, 9/10/08, Peck, Jon <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: Peck, Jon <[hidden email]>
Subject: RE: [BULK] Re: Disabling the click-point menu
To: [hidden email], [hidden email]
Date: Wednesday, 10 September, 2008, 11:10 PM

See below.

________________________________

From: Johnny Amora [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 9:08 PM
To: [hidden email]; Peck, Jon
Subject: [BULK] Re: Disabling the click-point menu
Importance: Low

Hi John Peck and SPSS,

Juanito wrote:

> Is it possible to disable the menu for the "point-click"
function of SPSS, while retaining the syntax functional? That is, for example,
the "factor analysis" will no longer be found in the menu but it would
still working through syntax.

> This is needed in class when we teach syntax and we dont allow
participants to do it through point click.

Then Art wrote:

Those who follow this list know that I consider the use of syntax to be
extremely important.
However, as long as students understand that developing a set of syntax
is an process of repeated development as any other writing is, I
consider the use of the GUI a very good tool for writing the first draft
of sections of syntax.

Among the reasons for rewriting:
1) the user becomes more advanced in his/her understanding of SPSS and
statistics 2) the user becomes more advanced in her/his understanding of
the data at hand
3) the user wants to try different approaches and options, 4) he/she
may want to make the syntax more readable to him/her self and others, 5)
reviewers may suggest/demand changes, etc.

I want to hear your comments.

Thanks.

Johnny

[>>>Peck, Jon]

My opinion would be influenced a bit by a better understanding of the context.

What kind of course is this? At what level?

And what is the intended purpose of the prohibition of using the point and click interface?

But for a typical data analysis/statistics course, even at a graduate level, I don’t see any reason to prohibit use of the gui. If the course is about statistical ideas, syntax is a means to an end, and having to memorize a long list of command names, keywords and grammatical rules serves no purpose in my opinion. In fact, it detracts from the pedagogic value of the course, since time has to be spent on straightening out syntax issues that could be better spent on the substance. And it certainly makes the material less attractive for the students.

Back in the dark ages when I taught econometrics to graduate students, we didn’t have guis, so we did spend more time than I would have liked on issues that really had nothing to do with the substance of the courses. (And this was long before my acquaintance with SPSS.) A friendly gui such as we now have with SPSS or other products would have been a great boon.

By this, I don’t mean at all to deprecate the value of being able to use syntax. I also think that people studying English (or other language) composition should learn how to spell. But that’s a nether layer that shouldn’t interfere with the main goals. Spell checkers and the SPSS Paste buttons are a big win.

Syntax is especially important in areas where point and click doesn’t work very well such as complex transformations and database operations and programming statistical or other algorithms. It’s also essential for production types of operations and reading command logs. But generating commands from the dialogs relieves the burden of memory while allowing the student to focus on the logic. I myself don’t remember the syntax definitions of the vast collection of SPSS commands. Understanding syntax has practical value in many ways, and knowing how to read a syntax chart is useful. Those skills can be tested in other ways.

The ability to work in ones native language, not available in syntax, is also an important consideration in the non-English speaking world.

If you prohibit the use of the gui, then what about the convenience of the new SPSS Statistics 17 syntax editor? Should that, too, be prohibited, since it helps with command completion and error checking?

If you want to critique a student’s approach, an annotated log of what they did might be an effective way to interact, but reading is not writing.

My opinion,

Jon

--- On Tue, 9/9/08, Art Kendall <[hidden email]> wrote:

________________________________

________________________________

Get your preferred Email name! <http://sg.rd.yahoo.com/ph/mail/domainchoice/mail/signature/*http:/mail.promotions.yahoo.com/newdomains/ph/>
Now you can @ymail.com and @rocketmail.com.

ViAnn Beadle

Re: [BULK] Re: Disabling the click-point menu

In reply to this post by John Amora

I thought that Jon had answered your question with SPSSB.exe that's available from the server version.

If you don't have the server version, here's another way to completely disable the UI: Don't let the users use SPSS and you run the jobs for them.

1. Tell the users to create syntax using some editor. I suggest notepad.
2. Have them send you the file.
3. Build a job including the file and then use production mode to run it.
4. Save the output as a text file.
5. Make them come to you to pick it up on paper or send them the text output.
6. If the job fails, have them edit their syntax in notepad and give it back to you to rerun it.

Welcome to the wonderful world of batch computing in the 1968 using WYLBUR!

-----Original Message-----
From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Johnny Amora
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 7:20 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [BULK] Re: Disabling the click-point menu

Jon,
I respect your opinion. All are non-debatable. However, the main idea of Juanito's question, which I would want to hear also the answer, was not addressed. Please, disregard the issue of the practicality of the question. Just assume instead that in a certain situation, we need to temporarily disable the GUI and while disabled the syntax is still functional. The question is "Is it possible"?

Thank you.
Johnny

--- On Wed, 9/10/08, Peck, Jon <[hidden email]> wrote:
From: Peck, Jon <[hidden email]>
Subject: RE: [BULK] Re: Disabling the click-point menu
To: [hidden email], [hidden email]
Date: Wednesday, 10 September, 2008, 11:10 PM

See below.

From: Johnny Amora
[mailto:[hidden email]]

Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008
9:08 PM

To: [hidden email];
Peck, Jon

Subject: [BULK] Re: Disabling the
click-point menu

Importance: Low

Hi John Peck and SPSS,

Juanito wrote:

> Is it possible to disable the menu for the
"point-click"

function of SPSS, while retaining the syntax functional? That is,
for example,

the "factor analysis" will no longer be found in the menu but it
would

still working through syntax.

> This is needed in class when we teach syntax and we dont allow

participants to do it through point click.

Then Art wrote:

Those who follow this list know that I consider the
use of syntax to be

extremely important.

However, as long as students understand that developing a set of syntax

is an process of repeated development as any other writing is, I

consider the use of the GUI a very good tool for writing the first draft

of sections of syntax.

Among the reasons for rewriting:

1) the user becomes more advanced in his/her understanding of SPSS and

statistics 2) the user becomes more advanced in her/his understanding of

the data at hand

3) the user wants to try different approaches and options, 4) he/she

may want to make the syntax more readable to him/her self and others, 5)

reviewers may suggest/demand changes, etc.

I want to hear your comments.

Thanks.

Johnny
[>>>Peck,
Jon]
My opinion
would be influenced a bit by a better understanding of the context.
What kind of
course is this? At what level?
And what is
the intended purpose of the prohibition of using the point and click
interface?

But for a
typical data analysis/statistics course, even at a graduate level, I don’t
see any reason to prohibit use of the gui. If the course is about
statistical ideas, syntax is a means to an end, and having to memorize a long
list of command names, keywords and grammatical rules serves no purpose in my
opinion. In fact, it detracts from the pedagogic value of the course, since
time has to be spent on straightening out syntax issues that could be better
spent on the substance. And it certainly makes the material less attractive
for the students.

Back in the
dark ages when I taught econometrics to graduate students, we didn’t have
guis, so we did spend more time than I would have liked on issues that really
had nothing to do with the substance of the courses. (And this was long
before my acquaintance with SPSS.) A friendly gui such as we now have with
SPSS or other products would have been a great boon.

By this, I don’t
mean at all to deprecate the value of being able to use syntax. I also think
that people studying English (or other language) composition should learn how
to spell. But that’s a nether layer that shouldn’t interfere with the main
goals. Spell checkers and the SPSS Paste buttons are a big win.

Syntax is
especially important in areas where point and click doesn’t work very well
such as complex transformations and database operations and programming statistical
or other algorithms. It’s also essential for production types of operations
and reading command logs. But generating commands from the dialogs relieves
the burden of memory while allowing the student to focus on the logic. I
myself don’t remember the syntax definitions of the vast collection of SPSS
commands. Understanding syntax has practical value in many ways, and knowing
how to read a syntax chart is useful. Those skills can be tested in other
ways.

The ability to
work in ones native language, not available in syntax, is also an important
consideration in the non-English speaking world.

If you
prohibit the use of the gui, then what about the convenience of the new SPSS
Statistics 17 syntax editor? Should that, too, be prohibited, since it helps
with command completion and error checking?

If you want to
critique a student’s approach, an annotated log of what they did might be an
effective way to interact, but reading is not writing.

My opinion,
Jon

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