Most secondary datasets downloaded off of ICPSR come with a setup file that
labels and imports data into SPSS for you, I have a dataset from the 1980's that has a spss setup file like I have never seen before. For the life of me I cant figure out how to get it to work, it talks about having tape as your storage medium - tape! they haven't used that since the days of big blue and poliester suits. I will include a snippet below if anyone has seen this before please let me know how to get this dataset up and running. Luckily things like varlabels and other commands have not changed, but SPSS does not seem to get to these commands, it errors out pretty much immediately. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Just out of curiosity, when they talk about cards, are they talking about punch cards ala 1971? Thanks a bunch for you help, Don RUN NAME SPSS CONTROL FILE DESCRIPTION FILE NAME STUDENTS DATA LIST FIXED RECDTYPE 1-2 SCHLTYPE 3 SCHOOLID 4-7 STUDNTID 8-9 CASEID 4-9 CENRGN 10 TWINDATA 11 LANGDATA 12 **************** Bunch of variables here************** EBQT5O 1020 EBQT5P 1021 EBQT5Q 1022 EBQT5R 1023 EBQT5S 1024 EBQT5T 1025 COMMENT THE FOLLOWING INDICATES THE DEVICE USED FOR INPUT INPUT MEDIUM TAPE N OF CASES UNKNOWN VAR LABELS RECDTYPE RECORD TYPE/ SCHLTYPE SCHOOL SAMPLE TYPE/ SCHOOLID FOUR DIGIT SCHOOL ID/ **************** Bunch of variables labels here************** EBQT5S FELT VERY TENSE/ EBQT5T FELT NERVOUS OR JITTERY VALUE LABELS RECDTYPE (04) STUDENT QUEX/ SCHLTYPE (0) REGULAR SAMPLE (1) ALTERNATIVE SCHOOLS (2) CUBAN HISPANIC PUBL (3) OTHER HISPANIC PUBL (5) REGULAR CATHOLIC (6) BLACK CATHOLIC **************** Bunch of variables values here************** READ INPUT DATA COMMENT INSERT YOUR SPSS PROCEDURE CARDS HERE FINISH |
Ah, geezerdom! At 07:55 PM 3/25/2007, Don Asay wrote:
>I have a dataset from the 1980's that has a spss setup file like I >have never seen before. For the life of me I cant figure out how to >get it to work, it talks about having tape as your storage medium - >tape! they haven't used that since the days of big blue and poliester >suits. Wellll..... there've been half-inch mag tapes around a *little* later than that. In fact, you wouldn't believe it, but there are still a few people living who've used one. >Just out of curiosity, when they talk about cards, are they talking >about punch cards ala 1971? Ah, let me tell you! When I was young, we didn't HAVE any of those fancy editors. We cut the little holes out of the cards with toenail clippers, and we stood barefoot in the snow whimpering for our output while the system crashed and all the CS students got ahead of us in line with program decks two feet thick... Yes, that's what they were talking about, and they were use to around 1990. >If anyone has seen this before please let me know how to get this >dataset up and running. OK. I'll write as if your data is in c:\Don\My Documents\DATA\ICPSR.DAT. And commenting out with '*xx..xx.' means "skip this one." *-- Replaced by 'TITLE', not that SPSS pays much . *-- attention to 'TITLE', either. . *xx RUN NAME SPSS CONTROL FILE DESCRIPTION xx. *-- Replaced by file specification on "SAVE" statement . *xx FILE NAME STUDENTS xx. *-- Note modern-day indenting of continuation lines . *-- And remove the "Bunch of variables" line, of . *-- course. . DATA LIST file='c:\Don\My Documents\DATA\ICPSR.DAT' FIXED / /* <<-- Added '/' required */ RECDTYPE 1-2 SCHLTYPE 3 SCHOOLID 4-7 STUDNTID 8-9 CASEID 4-9 CENRGN 10 TWINDATA 11 LANGDATA 12 **************** Bunch of variables here************** EBQT5O 1020 EBQT5P 1021 EBQT5Q 1022 EBQT5R 1023 EBQT5S 1024 EBQT5T 1025. *-- You don't need any of the following stuff. The . *-- "INPUT MEDIUM" is replaced by the "file=" . *-- specification on "DATA LIST". . *xx THE FOLLOWING INDICATES THE DEVICE USED FOR INPUT xx. *xx INPUT MEDIUM TAPE xx. *xx N OF CASES UNKNOWN xx. *xx FILE NAME STUDENTS xx. *-- Note modern-day indenting of continuation lines . *-- And labels must now be in quotes. . VAR LABELS RECDTYPE 'RECORD TYPE'/ SCHLTYPE 'SCHOOL SAMPLE TYPE'/ SCHOOLID 'FOUR DIGIT SCHOOL ID'/ **************** Bunch of variables labels here************** EBQT5S 'FELT VERY TENSE'/ EBQT5T 'FELT NERVOUS OR JITTERY'. *-- Same as VAR LABELS: . *-- Note modern-day indenting of continuation lines . *-- And labels must now be in quotes. . VALUE LABELS RECDTYPE (04) 'STUDENT QUEX'/ SCHLTYPE (0) 'REGULAR SAMPLE' (1) 'ALTERNATIVE SCHOOLS' (2) 'CUBAN HISPANIC PUBL' (3) 'OTHER HISPANIC PUBL' (5) 'REGULAR CATHOLIC' (6) 'BLACK CATHOLIC' **************** Bunch of variables values here************** *-- Historical note: this filled about the same . *-- role as present "BEGIN DATA/END DATA". Not . *-- needed if data isn't read from the syntax file . *xx READ INPUT DATA xx. *xx COMMENT INSERT YOUR SPSS PROCEDURE CARDS HERE xx. *-- At this point, put any transformation code you . *-- want to add and, probably, SAVE the file. . *-- Put in SPSS procedures as well, if you like. . *xx FINISH xx. *-- Good luck! -Richard . |
>Just out of curiosity, when they talk about cards, are they talking
>about punch cards ala 1971? Ah, let me tell you! When I was young, we didn't HAVE any of those fancy editors. We cut the little holes out of the cards with toenail clippers, and we stood barefoot in the snow whimpering for our output while the system crashed and all the CS students got ahead of us in line with program decks two feet thick... Yes, that's what they were talking about, and they were use to around 1990. *-- Good luck! -Richard ***** / Fogey Mode ON / ********* . Richard - we mere statisticians were pushed aside by the CS students because we were supposed to take our cards to the card-sorting machine, which would dutifully sort them into piles according to combinations of two variables. We mere statisticians would then count our cards, and dutifully compute our contingency statistics by hand (without a calculator). Ah, the joys of Crosstabs! Best, Steve P.S. It might amaze you to know that we even had a machine that would find the inverse of a 10 by 10 correlation matrix in less than five days. Well worth the price of the buggy ride. ***** / Fogey Mode OFF / ********* . For more ancient remininscences, visit www.statisticsdoc.com |
At 09:03 PM 3/26/2007, Statisticsdoc wrote:
>>When I was young, we didn't HAVE any of those >>fancy editors. We stood barefoot in the snow >>whimpering for our output while the CS students >>got ahead of us in line with program decks two feet thick... > >***** / Fogey Mode ON / ********* . > >Richard - we mere statisticians were pushed >aside by the CS students because we mere >statisticians were supposed to take our cards to >the card-sorting machine, which would dutifully >sort them into piles according to combinations of two variables. > >Ah, the joys of Crosstabs! Ah, I thought I could out-fogey just about anybody; but those methods had nearly gone out, when I came to the business. Summer of 1967, US Federal Reserve Board, Washington, D.C. The Fed had just switched to an IBM 360 running OS/360, thereby being an early and frustrated adopter of both. (Windows gives me déjà vu.) The group I was with (I was a very junior research assistant) were doing econometrics, multiple regressions with a few niceties like Durbin-Watson statistics, using specially-written FORTRAN programs; I don't know whether anybody at the Fed did crosstabs, or how, but there was a complete card-handling room that could have been used for statistics from card decks. >We would then count our cards, I hope you don't mean you had to count the cards after you sorted them into cells. I recall, the sorters at least had mechanical counters that gave the number sorted into each bin. (Punched cards and sorters were invented by Herman Hollerith for precisely this.) >and dutifully compute our contingency statistics >by hand (without a calculator). That is pretty bad. Desktop rotary mechanical calculators were widely available by 1960, anyway; but they weren't cheap, and maybe your shop had a tight budget. >P.S. It might amaze you to know that we even >had a machine that would find the inverse of a >10 by 10 correlation matrix in less than five >days. Well worth the price of the buggy ride. It does amaze me. I'd love to know what the machine was; I love old computing machinery. Let's see: off the top of my head, Gaussian elimination for matrix inversion should be about n^3, so about 1E3 additions/subtractions, perhaps 1E2 divisions. (Can anybody correct me?) That works out to several minutes per arithmetic operation; on the other hand, managing a kiloword or so of storage likely took most of the time. Did you program it with a plugboard? >***** / Fogey Mode OFF / ********* . And I'll do the same; but it's been fun. |
Just wanted to send a big thank you out to everyone, it worked. In addition
your comments about the past were absolutely hilarious, I am considering sharing them with my adviser to see if he gets a kick out of them. The dataset I needed to get up and running consisted of more than 500 variables and 8,000 cases, from what you say of previous computing techniques, it sounds like something like this would take a week and a half to get up and running. Just to let you know my "old" 1.2 gigahertz machine still took almost 10 minutes to import the file, but I was surfing the web on my wireless broadband connection while the computer was doing all the work... Just kidding, I don't mean to rub it in. Thanks again, Don On 3/27/07, Richard Ristow <[hidden email]> wrote: > > At 09:03 PM 3/26/2007, Statisticsdoc wrote: > > >>When I was young, we didn't HAVE any of those > >>fancy editors. We stood barefoot in the snow > >>whimpering for our output while the CS students > >>got ahead of us in line with program decks two feet thick... > > > >***** / Fogey Mode ON / ********* . > > > >Richard - we mere statisticians were pushed > >aside by the CS students because we mere > >statisticians were supposed to take our cards to > >the card-sorting machine, which would dutifully > >sort them into piles according to combinations of two variables. > > > >Ah, the joys of Crosstabs! > > Ah, I thought I could out-fogey just about > anybody; but those methods had nearly gone out, > when I came to the business. > > Summer of 1967, US Federal Reserve Board, > Washington, D.C. The Fed had just switched to an > IBM 360 running OS/360, thereby being an early > and frustrated adopter of both. (Windows gives me déjà vu.) > > The group I was with (I was a very junior > research assistant) were doing econometrics, > multiple regressions with a few niceties like > Durbin-Watson statistics, using specially-written FORTRAN programs; > > I don't know whether anybody at the Fed did > crosstabs, or how, but there was a complete > card-handling room that could have been used for > statistics from card decks. > > >We would then count our cards, > > I hope you don't mean you had to count the cards > after you sorted them into cells. I recall, the > sorters at least had mechanical counters that > gave the number sorted into each bin. > > (Punched cards and sorters were invented by > Herman Hollerith for precisely this.) > > >and dutifully compute our contingency statistics > >by hand (without a calculator). > > That is pretty bad. Desktop rotary mechanical > calculators were widely available by 1960, > anyway; but they weren't cheap, and maybe your shop had a tight budget. > > >P.S. It might amaze you to know that we even > >had a machine that would find the inverse of a > >10 by 10 correlation matrix in less than five > >days. Well worth the price of the buggy ride. > > It does amaze me. I'd love to know what the > machine was; I love old computing machinery. > Let's see: off the top of my head, Gaussian > elimination for matrix inversion should be about > n^3, so about 1E3 additions/subtractions, perhaps > 1E2 divisions. (Can anybody correct me?) That > works out to several minutes per arithmetic > operation; on the other hand, managing a kiloword > or so of storage likely took most of the time. > > Did you program it with a plugboard? > > >***** / Fogey Mode OFF / ********* . > > And I'll do the same; but it's been fun. > |
In reply to this post by statisticsdoc
Oh for the advantage of punch cards. We had to code our data on clay
slabs with a wooden stylus, then stand in line for hours waiting to have our slabs baked to hardness. Try carrying a box of those around the temple. *************************************************************************************************************************************************************** Mark A. Davenport Ph.D. Senior Research Analyst Court of Nebuchadnezzar II Hanging Gardens University 336.256.0395 [hidden email] 'An approximate answer to the right question is worth a good deal more than an exact answer to an approximate question.' --a paraphrase of J. W. Tukey (1962) Statisticsdoc <[hidden email]> Sent by: "SPSSX(r) Discussion" <[hidden email]> 03/26/2007 09:03 PM Please respond to Statisticsdoc <[hidden email]> To [hidden email] cc Subject Re: I need some help converting data from the 1980's from the SPSS oldtimers >Just out of curiosity, when they talk about cards, are they talking >about punch cards ala 1971? Ah, let me tell you! When I was young, we didn't HAVE any of those fancy editors. We cut the little holes out of the cards with toenail clippers, and we stood barefoot in the snow whimpering for our output while the system crashed and all the CS students got ahead of us in line with program decks two feet thick... Yes, that's what they were talking about, and they were use to around 1990. *-- Good luck! -Richard ***** / Fogey Mode ON / ********* . Richard - we mere statisticians were pushed aside by the CS students because we were supposed to take our cards to the card-sorting machine, which would dutifully sort them into piles according to combinations of two variables. We mere statisticians would then count our cards, and dutifully compute our contingency statistics by hand (without a calculator). Ah, the joys of Crosstabs! Best, Steve P.S. It might amaze you to know that we even had a machine that would find the inverse of a 10 by 10 correlation matrix in less than five days. Well worth the price of the buggy ride. ***** / Fogey Mode OFF / ********* . For more ancient remininscences, visit www.statisticsdoc.com |
In reply to this post by statisticsdoc
For you AMOS and Mixed Models users out there:
I am trying to assess pastor/spouse responses on 2 factors (means, really): Emotional Exhaustion and Depersonalization. I have fit a multi-goup (pastor/spouse model in AMOS and get great fit with no post-hoc modifications needed. My sense is that the analysis that I really want to run is not simply a comparison of a pastor group to a spouse group but a dyad analysis linking a particular pastor to a particular spouse. Has anyone set one of these up in AMOS or in Mixed Models before? I have seen examples in LISREL and in multilevel software but I read that SEM has certian advantages over HLM-style modeling in terms of dyad analysis. Can anyone point me to an article on the proper set-up. I just can't seem to wrap my head around this one. Mark *************************************************************************************************************************************************************** Mark A. Davenport Ph.D. Senior Research Analyst Office of Institutional Research The University of North Carolina at Greensboro 336.256.0395 [hidden email] 'An approximate answer to the right question is worth a good deal more than an exact answer to an approximate question.' --a paraphrase of J. W. Tukey (1962) |
In reply to this post by Mark A Davenport MADAVENP
We had to smash hydrogen and oxygen together and wait for the resulting
water to erode the rocks so that we could make clay! Stevan Lars Nielsen, Ph.D. Clinical Professor Clinical Psychologist 2518 WSC, BYU Provo, UT 84602 801-422-3035; fax 801-422-0175 -----Original Message----- From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mark A Davenport MADAVENP Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 9:02 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: I need some help converting data from the 1980's from the SPSS oldtimers Oh for the advantage of punch cards. We had to code our data on clay slabs with a wooden stylus, then stand in line for hours waiting to have our slabs baked to hardness. Try carrying a box of those around the temple. ************************************************************************ ************************************************************************ *************** Mark A. Davenport Ph.D. Senior Research Analyst Court of Nebuchadnezzar II Hanging Gardens University 336.256.0395 [hidden email] 'An approximate answer to the right question is worth a good deal more than an exact answer to an approximate question.' --a paraphrase of J. W. Tukey (1962) Statisticsdoc <[hidden email]> Sent by: "SPSSX(r) Discussion" <[hidden email]> 03/26/2007 09:03 PM Please respond to Statisticsdoc <[hidden email]> To [hidden email] cc Subject Re: I need some help converting data from the 1980's from the SPSS oldtimers >Just out of curiosity, when they talk about cards, are they talking >about punch cards ala 1971? Ah, let me tell you! When I was young, we didn't HAVE any of those fancy editors. We cut the little holes out of the cards with toenail clippers, and we stood barefoot in the snow whimpering for our output while the system crashed and all the CS students got ahead of us in line with program decks two feet thick... Yes, that's what they were talking about, and they were use to around 1990. *-- Good luck! -Richard ***** / Fogey Mode ON / ********* . Richard - we mere statisticians were pushed aside by the CS students because we were supposed to take our cards to the card-sorting machine, which would dutifully sort them into piles according to combinations of two variables. We mere statisticians would then count our cards, and dutifully compute our contingency statistics by hand (without a calculator). Ah, the joys of Crosstabs! Best, Steve P.S. It might amaze you to know that we even had a machine that would find the inverse of a 10 by 10 correlation matrix in less than five days. Well worth the price of the buggy ride. ***** / Fogey Mode OFF / ********* . For more ancient remininscences, visit www.statisticsdoc.com |
In reply to this post by Mark A Davenport MADAVENP
We used to dream of clay!
We had to quarry our own granite blocks-- using only pine needles-- and carry them 3 leagues from the pit head (uphill of course). Then we had to scratch our data into the granite using our fingernails, while the CS students broke our granite slabs into gravel on our foreheads. We called it getting familiar with the data. --jim -----Original Message----- From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mark A Davenport MADAVENP Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 10:02 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: I need some help converting data from the 1980's from the SPSS oldtimers Oh for the advantage of punch cards. We had to code our data on clay slabs with a wooden stylus, then stand in line for hours waiting to have our slabs baked to hardness. Try carrying a box of those around the temple. ************************************************************************ ************************************************************************ *************** Mark A. Davenport Ph.D. Senior Research Analyst Court of Nebuchadnezzar II Hanging Gardens University 336.256.0395 [hidden email] 'An approximate answer to the right question is worth a good deal more than an exact answer to an approximate question.' --a paraphrase of J. W. Tukey (1962) Statisticsdoc <[hidden email]> Sent by: "SPSSX(r) Discussion" <[hidden email]> 03/26/2007 09:03 PM Please respond to Statisticsdoc <[hidden email]> To [hidden email] cc Subject Re: I need some help converting data from the 1980's from the SPSS oldtimers >Just out of curiosity, when they talk about cards, are they talking >about punch cards ala 1971? Ah, let me tell you! When I was young, we didn't HAVE any of those fancy editors. We cut the little holes out of the cards with toenail clippers, and we stood barefoot in the snow whimpering for our output while the system crashed and all the CS students got ahead of us in line with program decks two feet thick... Yes, that's what they were talking about, and they were use to around 1990. *-- Good luck! -Richard ***** / Fogey Mode ON / ********* . Richard - we mere statisticians were pushed aside by the CS students because we were supposed to take our cards to the card-sorting machine, which would dutifully sort them into piles according to combinations of two variables. We mere statisticians would then count our cards, and dutifully compute our contingency statistics by hand (without a calculator). Ah, the joys of Crosstabs! Best, Steve P.S. It might amaze you to know that we even had a machine that would find the inverse of a 10 by 10 correlation matrix in less than five days. Well worth the price of the buggy ride. ***** / Fogey Mode OFF / ********* . For more ancient remininscences, visit www.statisticsdoc.com |
In reply to this post by Björn Türoque
At 10:28 AM 3/27/2007, Don Asay wrote:
>Just wanted to send a big thank you out to everyone, it worked. Great! >In addition your comments about the past were absolutely hilarious, I >am considering sharing them with my adviser to see if he gets a kick >out of them. For goodness sakes, yes. Advisors get little enough fun. >The dataset I needed to get up and running consisted of more than 500 >variables and 8,000 cases, from what you say of previous computing >techniques, it sounds like something like this would take a week and a >half to get up and running. By 1980, a good deal less than that. Punch cards were still definitely in use, but a lot of shops (certainly Brown University) had interactive accounts where you could create your 'card' decks with an editor, send them directly to the batch system, and get your 'printed' output back as a file. Made much, much shorter turn-around than if an operator had to load the card reader, then unload and separate the printed output. And your 8 meg dataset (I looked at your record length) was notably big at that point, but no longer extraordinary. (From the Federal Reserve days, in 1967: We passed around the word, with kind of awe, of somebody who'd brought in a dataset on five CASES of cards. Cards came 2,000 to a box, five boxes to a case, and five cases made quite a pile - I saw them. But that was 2,000cards*80columns*5boxes*5cases=4megabytes.) >My "old" 1.2 gigahertz machine still took almost 10 minutes to import >the file [...] I'm a tad surprised it took even that long. May have actually been CPU bound, though that's rare for an SPSS job on a modern system. But, oh, yes. Most of my time at Brown we were using a 360/67, a fine machine for its day and a fairly large one. But it had 1 megabyte of memory - not a misprint, and in fact notably large - and about a 1 microsecond memory cycle, translating to maybe 3 MEGAhertz clock. I just re-estimated. When I joined Brown - about 1975, remember - we had something under a gigabyte in mounted disk storage, in 30-megabyte disk drives each about the size and shape. Now, I have a 1 gigabyte thumb drive on my key chain. |
In reply to this post by Richard Ristow
Richard,
The underequipped lab I am thinking of was engaged in an underfunded project on social gerontology back in the early 1970's. The whizzing matrix inversion machine actually dates from the early days of computing at the University of Illinois (Urbana-Champaign). Not quite a plugboard, but definitely very pre-Silicon! BTW, in my college days, Psych majors were expected to learn to use plugboards for control of learning and memory experiments (*gasp*). Cheers, Steve For personalized and professional consultation in statistics and research design, visit www.statisticsdoc.com -----Original Message----- From: Richard Ristow [mailto:[hidden email]] Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 12:20 AM To: Statisticsdoc; [hidden email] Subject: Re: I need some help converting data from the 1980's from the SPSS oldtimers At 09:03 PM 3/26/2007, Statisticsdoc wrote: >>When I was young, we didn't HAVE any of those >>fancy editors. We stood barefoot in the snow >>whimpering for our output while the CS students >>got ahead of us in line with program decks two feet thick... > >***** / Fogey Mode ON / ********* . > >Richard - we mere statisticians were pushed >aside by the CS students because we mere >statisticians were supposed to take our cards to >the card-sorting machine, which would dutifully >sort them into piles according to combinations of two variables. > >Ah, the joys of Crosstabs! Ah, I thought I could out-fogey just about anybody; but those methods had nearly gone out, when I came to the business. Summer of 1967, US Federal Reserve Board, Washington, D.C. The Fed had just switched to an IBM 360 running OS/360, thereby being an early and frustrated adopter of both. (Windows gives me déjà vu.) The group I was with (I was a very junior research assistant) were doing econometrics, multiple regressions with a few niceties like Durbin-Watson statistics, using specially-written FORTRAN programs; I don't know whether anybody at the Fed did crosstabs, or how, but there was a complete card-handling room that could have been used for statistics from card decks. >We would then count our cards, I hope you don't mean you had to count the cards after you sorted them into cells. I recall, the sorters at least had mechanical counters that gave the number sorted into each bin. (Punched cards and sorters were invented by Herman Hollerith for precisely this.) >and dutifully compute our contingency statistics >by hand (without a calculator). That is pretty bad. Desktop rotary mechanical calculators were widely available by 1960, anyway; but they weren't cheap, and maybe your shop had a tight budget. >P.S. It might amaze you to know that we even >had a machine that would find the inverse of a >10 by 10 correlation matrix in less than five >days. Well worth the price of the buggy ride. It does amaze me. I'd love to know what the machine was; I love old computing machinery. Let's see: off the top of my head, Gaussian elimination for matrix inversion should be about n^3, so about 1E3 additions/subtractions, perhaps 1E2 divisions. (Can anybody correct me?) That works out to several minutes per arithmetic operation; on the other hand, managing a kiloword or so of storage likely took most of the time. Did you program it with a plugboard? >***** / Fogey Mode OFF / ********* . And I'll do the same; but it's been fun. |
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