Indentation sign ('+' vs. '-') [was: traffic]

[Enzmann]

I had a look at the "1.3.3.2a_introduction_to_spss_syntax.pdf" (see the
link below). On page 7 it says:

"Sub-commands can be continued over more than 1 line, but continuation
lines must be indented by at least 1 column or must use a + sign if the
text is too long to fit on one line."

This is a dangerous advice! Using the + sign as indentation sign might
bite you if you write syntax which which will be included using the
-include- command of SPSS. It is always better to use the '-' (minus)
sign instead of the '+' (plus) sign.

See:
http://www.listserv.uga.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0401&L=spssx-l&P=R17863&m=22575
which points to the problem of using '+' instead of '-', see also:
http://www.listserv.uga.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0310&L=spssx-l&P=R14717
where Raynald Levesque recommends to always use '-',

and see
http://www.listserv.uga.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0308&L=spssx-l&P=R23754&m=22575
which explains why you should use an intentation sign at all.

03-May-2013 09:49, John F Hall <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Re: traffic

--- <snip> ---

> Even then I still taught students about fixed fields for both syntax and
> data before tucking in to SPSS.  Even now I prefer syntax to the GUI for
> most basic operations: I think students klearn and retain more this way.
>
> At least we don't have to use coding sheets any more (see:
> http://surveyresearch.weebly.com/uploads/2/9/9/8/2998485/1.3.3.2a_introduction_to_spss_syntax.pdf
>
--- <snip> ---

Dirk

========================================
Dr. Dirk Enzmann
Institute of Criminal Sciences
Dept. of Criminology
Rothenbaumchaussee 33
D-20148 Hamburg
Germany

phone: [phone] (office)
        +49-(0)40-42838.4591 (Mrs Billon)
fax:   [phone]
email: [hidden email]
http://www2.jura.uni-hamburg.de/instkrim/kriminologie/Mitarbeiter/Enzmann/Enzmann.html
========================================

=====================
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[Jon K Peck]

That is completely obsolete advice.  Any commands can be continued without indentation or continuation characters.  Use a period to terminate a command.  (A blank line also terminates a command).  INCLUDE, which requires batch style syntax, is still supported, but it is obsolete.  The INSERT command replaces it.  INSERT defaults to interactive-style syntax, although batch style can be specified.


Jon Peck (no "h") aka Kim
Senior Software Engineer, IBM
[hidden email]
phone: [phone]




From:        Dirk Enzmann <[hidden email]>
To:        [hidden email],
Date:        05/05/2013 05:32 AM
Subject:        [SPSSX-L] Indentation sign ('+' vs. '-') [was: traffic]
Sent by:        "SPSSX(r) Discussion" <[hidden email]>

---

I had a look at the "1.3.3.2a_introduction_to_spss_syntax.pdf" (see the
link below). On page 7 it says:

"Sub-commands can be continued over more than 1 line, but continuation
lines must be indented by at least 1 column or must use a + sign if the
text is too long to fit on one line."

This is a dangerous advice! Using the + sign as indentation sign might
bite you if you write syntax which which will be included using the
-include- command of SPSS. It is always better to use the '-' (minus)
sign instead of the '+' (plus) sign.

See:
http://www.listserv.uga.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0401&L=spssx-l&P=R17863&m=22575
which points to the problem of using '+' instead of '-', see also:
http://www.listserv.uga.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0310&L=spssx-l&P=R14717
where Raynald Levesque recommends to always use '-',

and see
http://www.listserv.uga.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0308&L=spssx-l&P=R23754&m=22575
which explains why you should use an intentation sign at all.

03-May-2013 09:49, John F Hall <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Re: traffic

--- <snip> ---

> Even then I still taught students about fixed fields for both syntax and
> data before tucking in to SPSS.  Even now I prefer syntax to the GUI for
> most basic operations: I think students klearn and retain more this way.
>
> At least we don't have to use coding sheets any more (see:
> http://surveyresearch.weebly.com/uploads/2/9/9/8/2998485/1.3.3.2a_introduction_to_spss_syntax.pdf
>
--- <snip> ---

Dirk

========================================
Dr. Dirk Enzmann
Institute of Criminal Sciences
Dept. of Criminology
Rothenbaumchaussee 33
D-20148 Hamburg
Germany

phone: [phone] (office)
       +49-(0)40-42838.4591 (Mrs Billon)
fax:   [phone]
email: [hidden email]
http://www2.jura.uni-hamburg.de/instkrim/kriminologie/Mitarbeiter/Enzmann/Enzmann.html
========================================

=====================
To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to
[hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the
command. To leave the list, send the command
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For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command
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[Enzmann]

Thanks for clarifying!

Two additional questions, though:

1) Since which SPSS version is INCLUDE obsolete?

2) What if I am using old syntax files with the most recent version of
SPSS and these files use INCLUDE including syntax using the '+'
indentation sign, will they really run without problems? (In case I
would run into problems the advice would not be *completely* obsolete.)

Dirk

05.05.2013 14:59, Jon K Peck wrote:

> That is completely obsolete advice. Any commands can be continued
> without indentation or continuation characters. Use a period to
> terminate a command. (A blank line also terminates a command). INCLUDE,
> which requires batch style syntax, is still supported, but it is
> obsolete. The INSERT command replaces it. INSERT defaults to
> interactive-style syntax, although batch style can be specified.
>
>
> Jon Peck (no "h") aka Kim
> Senior Software Engineer, IBM
> [hidden email]
> phone: [phone]
>
>
>
>
> From: Dirk Enzmann <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email],
> Date: 05/05/2013 05:32 AM
> Subject: [SPSSX-L] Indentation sign ('+' vs. '-') [was: traffic]
> Sent by: "SPSSX(r) Discussion" <[hidden email]>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> I had a look at the "1.3.3.2a_introduction_to_spss_syntax.pdf" (see the
> link below). On page 7 it says:
>
> "Sub-commands can be continued over more than 1 line, but continuation
> lines must be indented by at least 1 column or must use a + sign if the
> text is too long to fit on one line."
>
> This is a dangerous advice! Using the + sign as indentation sign might
> bite you if you write syntax which which will be included using the
> -include- command of SPSS. It is always better to use the '-' (minus)
> sign instead of the '+' (plus) sign.
>
> See:
> http://www.listserv.uga.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0401&L=spssx-l&P=R17863&m=22575
> <http://www.listserv.uga.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0401&L=spssx-l&P=R17863&m=22575>
> which points to the problem of using '+' instead of '-', see also:
> http://www.listserv.uga.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0310&L=spssx-l&P=R14717
> <http://www.listserv.uga.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0310&L=spssx-l&P=R14717>
> where Raynald Levesque recommends to always use '-',
>
> and see
> http://www.listserv.uga.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0308&L=spssx-l&P=R23754&m=22575
> <http://www.listserv.uga.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0308&L=spssx-l&P=R23754&m=22575>
> which explains why you should use an intentation sign at all.
>
> 03-May-2013 09:49, John F Hall <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  > Re: traffic
>
> --- <snip> ---
>
>  > Even then I still taught students about fixed fields for both syntax and
>  > data before tucking in to SPSS. Even now I prefer syntax to the GUI for
>  > most basic operations: I think students klearn and retain more this way.
>  >
>  > At least we don't have to use coding sheets any more (see:
>  >
> http://surveyresearch.weebly.com/uploads/2/9/9/8/2998485/1.3.3.2a_introduction_to_spss_syntax.pdf
>  >
> --- <snip> ---
>
> Dirk

========================================
Dr. Dirk Enzmann
Institute of Criminal Sciences
Dept. of Criminology
Rothenbaumchaussee 33
D-20148 Hamburg
Germany

phone: [phone] (office)
        +49-(0)40-42838.4591 (Mrs Billon)
fax:   [phone]
email: [hidden email]
http://www2.jura.uni-hamburg.de/instkrim/kriminologie/Mitarbeiter/Enzmann/Enzmann.html
========================================

=====================
To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to
[hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the
command. To leave the list, send the command
SIGNOFF SPSSX-L
For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command
INFO REFCARD

[John F Hall]

Dirk

Thanks for the advice on this: the tutorial is quite an old one.  I'm not
absolutely certain, but SPSS19 seems to be very tolerant of continuation
lines not starting in col 1.

Been mowing grass all afternoon, but it looks as if Jon has already answered
the question.

Not sure about INCLUDE, but if you look at my Old Dog Old Tricks paper
you'll see what I had to do to get 1970s mainframe syntax to work with SPSS
(11) for Windows.

http://surveyresearch.weebly.com/uploads/2/9/9/8/2998485/appendix_3_forensic
_notes.pdf

John


-----Original Message-----
From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
Dirk Enzmann
Sent: 05 May 2013 15:51
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Indentation sign ('+' vs. '-') [was: traffic]

Thanks for clarifying!

Two additional questions, though:

1) Since which SPSS version is INCLUDE obsolete?

2) What if I am using old syntax files with the most recent version of SPSS
and these files use INCLUDE including syntax using the '+'
indentation sign, will they really run without problems? (In case I would
run into problems the advice would not be *completely* obsolete.)

Dirk

05.05.2013 14:59, Jon K Peck wrote:

> That is completely obsolete advice. Any commands can be continued
> without indentation or continuation characters. Use a period to
> terminate a command. (A blank line also terminates a command).
> INCLUDE, which requires batch style syntax, is still supported, but it
> is obsolete. The INSERT command replaces it. INSERT defaults to
> interactive-style syntax, although batch style can be specified.
>
>
> Jon Peck (no "h") aka Kim
> Senior Software Engineer, IBM
> [hidden email]
> phone: [phone]
>
>
>
>
> From: Dirk Enzmann <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email],
> Date: 05/05/2013 05:32 AM
> Subject: [SPSSX-L] Indentation sign ('+' vs. '-') [was: traffic] Sent
> by: "SPSSX(r) Discussion" <[hidden email]>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>
>
>
> I had a look at the "1.3.3.2a_introduction_to_spss_syntax.pdf" (see
> the link below). On page 7 it says:
>
> "Sub-commands can be continued over more than 1 line, but continuation
> lines must be indented by at least 1 column or must use a + sign if
> the text is too long to fit on one line."
>
> This is a dangerous advice! Using the + sign as indentation sign might
> bite you if you write syntax which which will be included using the
> -include- command of SPSS. It is always better to use the '-' (minus)
> sign instead of the '+' (plus) sign.
>
> See:
> http://www.listserv.uga.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0401&L=spssx-l&P=R17863&m
> =22575
> <http://www.listserv.uga.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0401&L=spssx-l&P=R17863&
> m=22575> which points to the problem of using '+' instead of '-', see
> also:
> http://www.listserv.uga.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0310&L=spssx-l&P=R14717
> <http://www.listserv.uga.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0310&L=spssx-l&P=R14717>
> where Raynald Levesque recommends to always use '-',
>
> and see
> http://www.listserv.uga.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0308&L=spssx-l&P=R23754&m
> =22575
> <http://www.listserv.uga.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0308&L=spssx-l&P=R23754&
> m=22575> which explains why you should use an intentation sign at all.
>
> 03-May-2013 09:49, John F Hall <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  > Re: traffic
>
> --- <snip> ---
>
>  > Even then I still taught students about fixed fields for both
> syntax and  > data before tucking in to SPSS. Even now I prefer syntax
> to the GUI for  > most basic operations: I think students klearn and

retain more this way.
>  >
>  > At least we don't have to use coding sheets any more (see:
>  >
> http://surveyresearch.weebly.com/uploads/2/9/9/8/2998485/1.3.3.2a_intr
> oduction_to_spss_syntax.pdf
>  >
> --- <snip> ---
>
> Dirk


========================================
Dr. Dirk Enzmann
Institute of Criminal Sciences
Dept. of Criminology
Rothenbaumchaussee 33
D-20148 Hamburg
Germany

phone: [phone] (office)
        +49-(0)40-42838.4591 (Mrs Billon)
fax:   [phone]
email: [hidden email]
http://www2.jura.uni-hamburg.de/instkrim/kriminologie/Mitarbeiter/Enzmann/En
zmann.html
========================================

=====================
To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to
[hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the
command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of
commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD

=====================
To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to
[hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the
command. To leave the list, send the command
SIGNOFF SPSSX-L
For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command
INFO REFCARD