Mailing list vs. newsgroup format
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Mailing list vs. newsgroup format
 
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My response to Peter Link in another thread reminded me of a question that I've been meaning to ask about this mailing list, and about mailing lists in general.
Preamble. In my experience, the world is divided into two groups of people*: 1. Those who love mailing lists and hate usenet. 2. Those who love usenet and hate mailing lists. * OK, there may some people (e.g., Jon Peck & Art Kendall) who can happily work with either format--but they can't be more than 3 or 4 in number! ;-) Personally, I'm in the 2nd group, and only participate in this mailing list because I can do so online via Nabble.com. Now to my question: <rant> Why is it that mailing lists like this one don't switch to a format like Google Groups, which allows people to CHOOSE which way they want to read & post? I.e., members can participate via e-mail, OR they can participate online (in a newsgroup/discussion board format), whichever they prefer. I suspect there are more curmudgeons like me out there who really dislike mailing lists, but would happily participate if they could read & post online. There are good folks who participate in comp.soft-sys.stat.spss, for example, who are not subscribed to this list. And vice versa. </rant> Cheers, Bruce
--
Bruce Weaver bweaver@lakeheadu.ca http://sites.google.com/a/lakeheadu.ca/bweaver/ "When all else fails, RTFM." PLEASE NOTE THE FOLLOWING: 1. My Hotmail account is not monitored regularly. To send me an e-mail, please use the address shown above. 2. The SPSSX Discussion forum on Nabble is no longer linked to the SPSSX-L listserv administered by UGA (https://listserv.uga.edu/). |
Re: Mailing list vs. newsgroup format
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I have FIOS which is sometimes as slow as 10,000 kbits, but that is plenty for mail and news. I use Thunderbird for mail and news. I am very used to it since for many years I worked in classified environments and Outlook was considered a security risk. (I don't know whether it still its.) when I am on the road I can get to mail via netmail.verizon.com but that method does not have threading, shows 20 or so messages and has to refresh from the server every time an entry is deleted etc. Also, I have not looked at alternatives for new reading for some time. Also UGA is running a very old version of LISTSERV (18d) so that the archives are not in HTML and some other peculiarities that I do not recall at the moment. [APA is running LISTSERV 15.0.] I can deal with newsgroups because they are what we had before www. Because nntp comes from the early days it uses little bandwidth. 1200 baud was fast dial up in those days. It is simply plain text. However, it can only be filtered on subject and sender not on content. It does thread messages. Many ISPs have dropped usenet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September). I prefer the listserv approach because it allows the use of bolding, fixed fonts for syntax so one can show vertical structure (e.g., vertically align "="), filtering on content, Bayesian junk filtering, etc. Because it uses sntp one can filter, i.e., I can have email from SPSSX-L or any other source put into a separate folder including "suspicious". What I don't like is that when someone posts to several groups Would you tell use more about what you mean by "in a newsgroup/discussion board format"? I joined a Google group and get email from it, but it does not let me reply or post and I have not taken the time to look into it. What about listserv lists is it that you dislike? Is it particular to SPSSX-L or do you have the same problem with other lists? Art Kendall Social Research Consultants On 3/17/2010 3:24 PM, Bruce Weaver wrote: ===================== To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARDMy response to Peter Link in another thread reminded me of a question that I've been meaning to ask about this mailing list, and about mailing lists in general. Preamble. In my experience, the world is divided into two groups of people*: 1. Those who love mailing lists and hate usenet. 2. Those who love usenet and hate mailing lists. * OK, there may some people (e.g., Jon Peck & Art Kendall) who can happily work with either format--but they can't be more than 3 or 4 in number! ;-) Personally, I'm in the 2nd group, and only participate in this mailing list because I can do so online via Nabble.com. Now to my question: <rant> Why is it that mailing lists like this one don't switch to a format like Google Groups, which allows people to CHOOSE which way they want to read & post? I.e., members can participate via e-mail, OR they can participate online (in a newsgroup/discussion board format), whichever they prefer. I suspect there are more curmudgeons like me out there who really dislike mailing lists, but would happily participate if they could read & post online. There are good folks who participate in comp.soft-sys.stat.spss, for example, who are not subscribed to this list. And vice versa. </rant> Cheers, Bruce ----- -- Bruce Weaver [hidden email] http://sites.google.com/a/lakeheadu.ca/bweaver/ "When all else fails, RTFM." NOTE: My Hotmail account is not monitored regularly. To send me an e-mail, please use the address shown above. -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Mailing-list-vs.-newsgroup-format-tp27937094p27937094.html Sent from the SPSSX Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ===================== To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD
Art Kendall
Social Research Consultants |
Re: Mailing list vs. newsgroup format
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Administrator
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AK wrote: What about listserv lists is it that you dislike? Is it particular to SPSSX-L or do you have the same problem with other lists?
Hi Art. My dislike of mailing lists is general (the main reason being that I don't want all of that junk--especially the out of office replies--in my inbox). But I hasten to add that it was not my intention to start a thread in which everyone lists the reasons why they like or dislike mailing lists & newsgroups. It was simply to point out that a format like Google Groups allows the individual member to decide whether they want to participate via e-mail (mailing list format) or via the web-based interface (newsgroup format). Perhaps the real issue behind my mini rant is this. There are two main fora for discussing matters related to SPSS: 1) this mailing list, and 2) the comp.soft-sys.stat.spss (usenet) newsgroup. A few of us (Art K, Jon P, Ryan B, me) participate in both of them. But as far as I can tell, most of the main players in these two fora participate in only one of them. (I attribute that to the fact that a lot of people have a clear preference for which format they like, mailing list vs newsgroup.) IMO, the broader community of SPSS users would benefit if these two groups of users united in a single forum. It seems to me that the easiest way to accomplish that would be for members of SPSSX-L to join comp.soft-sys.stat via Google Groups. The nice thing about Google Groups is that it allows the individual member to decide whether they want to participate via e-mail (mailing list format) or via the web-based interface (newsgroup format). So curmudgeons on both sides can be accommodated. ;-) Cheers, Bruce
--
Bruce Weaver bweaver@lakeheadu.ca http://sites.google.com/a/lakeheadu.ca/bweaver/ "When all else fails, RTFM." PLEASE NOTE THE FOLLOWING: 1. My Hotmail account is not monitored regularly. To send me an e-mail, please use the address shown above. 2. The SPSSX Discussion forum on Nabble is no longer linked to the SPSSX-L listserv administered by UGA (https://listserv.uga.edu/). |
Re: Mailing list vs. newsgroup format
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I don't see "out of office" or "on vacation" replies from SPSSX-l or
any other mail because I have a specific filter. (Unless they are not
in English.)
Does Google have filters, HTML, archives, and attachments? I'll try to take a look at Google this weekend. I'll take my further questions offline. Art On 3/18/2010 9:42 AM, Bruce Weaver wrote: ===================== To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARDAK wrote: What about listserv lists is it that you dislike? Is it particular to SPSSX-L or do you have the same problem with other lists? Hi Art. My dislike of mailing lists is general (the main reason being that I don't want all of that junk--especially the out of office replies--in my inbox). But I hasten to add that it was not my intention to start a thread in which everyone lists the reasons why they like or dislike mailing lists & newsgroups. It was simply to point out that a format like Google Groups allows the individual member to decide whether they want to participate via e-mail (mailing list format) or via the web-based interface (newsgroup format). Perhaps the real issue behind my mini rant is this. There are two main fora for discussing matters related to SPSS: 1) this mailing list, and 2) the comp.soft-sys.stat.spss (usenet) newsgroup. A few of us (Art K, Jon P, Ryan B, me) participate in both of them. But as far as I can tell, most of the main players in these two fora participate in only one of them. (I attribute that to the fact that a lot of people have a clear preference for which format they like, mailing list vs newsgroup.) IMO, the broader community of SPSS users would benefit if these two groups of users united in a single forum. It seems to me that the easiest way to accomplish that would be for members of SPSSX-L to join comp.soft-sys.stat via Google Groups. The nice thing about Google Groups is that it allows the individual member to decide whether they want to participate via e-mail (mailing list format) or via the web-based interface (newsgroup format). So curmudgeons on both sides can be accommodated. ;-) Cheers, Bruce Art Kendall wrote:I guess that some of the reasons for preference have to do with what bandwith, habit, and software one uses. I have FIOS which is sometimes as slow as 10,000 kbits, but that is plenty for mail and news. I use Thunderbird for mail and news. I am very used to it since for many years I worked in classified environments and Outlook was considered a security risk. (I don't know whether it still its.) when I am on the road I can get to mail via netmail.verizon.com but that method does not have threading, shows 20 or so messages and has to refresh from the server every time an entry is deleted etc. Also, I have not looked at alternatives for new reading for some time. Also UGA is running a very old version of LISTSERV (18d) so that the archives are not in HTML and some other peculiarities that I do not recall at the moment. [APA is running LISTSERV 15.0.] I can deal with newsgroups because they are what we had before www. Because nntp comes from the early days it uses little bandwidth. 1200 baud was fast dial up in those days. It is simply plain text. However, it can only be filtered on subject and sender not on content. It does thread messages. Many ISPs have dropped usenet ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September ). I prefer the listserv approach because it allows the use of bolding, fixed fonts for syntax so one can show vertical structure (e.g., vertically align "="), filtering on content, Bayesian junk filtering, etc. Because it uses sntp one can filter, i.e., I can have email from SPSSX-L or any other source put into a separate folder including "suspicious". What I don't like is that when someone posts to several groups Would you tell use more about what you mean by "in a newsgroup/discussion board format"? I joined a Google group and get email from it, but it does not let me reply or post and I have not taken the time to look into it. What about listserv lists is it that you dislike? Is it particular to SPSSX-L or do you have the same problem with other lists? Art Kendall Social Research Consultants On 3/17/2010 3:24 PM, Bruce Weaver wrote: My response to Peter Link in another thread reminded me of a question that I've been meaning to ask about this mailing list, and about mailing lists in general. Preamble. In my experience, the world is divided into two groups of people*: 1. Those who love mailing lists and hate usenet. 2. Those who love usenet and hate mailing lists. * OK, there may some people (e.g., Jon Peck & Art Kendall) who can happily work with either format--but they can't be more than 3 or 4 in number! ;-) Personally, I'm in the 2nd group, and only participate in this mailing list because I can do so online via Nabble.com. Now to my question: <rant> Why is it that mailing lists like this one don't switch to a format like Google Groups, which allows people to CHOOSE which way they want to read & post? I.e., members can participate via e-mail, OR they can participate online (in a newsgroup/discussion board format), whichever they prefer. I suspect there are more curmudgeons like me out there who really dislike mailing lists, but would happily participate if they could read & post online. There are good folks who participate in comp.soft-sys.stat.spss, for example, who are not subscribed to this list. And vice versa. </rant> Cheers, Bruce ----- -- Bruce Weaver [hidden email] http://sites.google.com/a/lakeheadu.ca/bweaver/ "When all else fails, RTFM." NOTE: My Hotmail account is not monitored regularly. To send me an e-mail, please use the address shown above. -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Mailing-list-vs.-newsgroup-format-tp27937094p27937094.html Sent from the SPSSX Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ===================== To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD ===================== To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD----- -- Bruce Weaver [hidden email] http://sites.google.com/a/lakeheadu.ca/bweaver/ "When all else fails, RTFM." NOTE: My Hotmail account is not monitored regularly. To send me an e-mail, please use the address shown above. -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Mailing-list-vs.-newsgroup-format-tp27937094p27945693.html Sent from the SPSSX Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ===================== To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD
Art Kendall
Social Research Consultants |
Re: Mailing list vs. newsgroup format
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Administrator
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--
Bruce Weaver bweaver@lakeheadu.ca http://sites.google.com/a/lakeheadu.ca/bweaver/ "When all else fails, RTFM." PLEASE NOTE THE FOLLOWING: 1. My Hotmail account is not monitored regularly. To send me an e-mail, please use the address shown above. 2. The SPSSX Discussion forum on Nabble is no longer linked to the SPSSX-L listserv administered by UGA (https://listserv.uga.edu/). |
Re: Mailing list vs. newsgroup format
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In reply to this post by Bruce Weaver
As someone who has used both usenet news and email listservs
extensively, I actually think that a web-based forum (running something like v-Bulletin) would be the best method of handling this sort of content. It lets you easily attend to subjects that you find interesting without having to wade through every post, and it allows you to "subscribe" to those threads and to easily view only new posts, view only posts in reply to threads you are interested in, and also allows you to receive email notices of new posts in the threads you're interested in (I use that latter feature for some forums and not for others). Dennis ===================== To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD |
Re: Mailing list vs. newsgroup format
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In reply to this post by Bruce Weaver
Below, Bruce made the point that with the Google Group format, one could
choose which format you wanted. Not only that, but one can choose either method at any time at your convenience (i.e you don't have to choose one and then be stuck with it, which Bruce's posting left as a possibility.) A good example you can explore is the Google Group, MedStats at http://groups.google.com/group/medstats Sorry for 2 plugs in one day, but I hope you find the group interesting, and user-friendly. Best Wishes, Martin Holt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Weaver" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 1:42 PM Subject: Re: Mailing list vs. newsgroup format > AK wrote: What about listserv lists is it that you dislike? Is it > particular to SPSSX-L or do you have the same problem with other lists? > > Hi Art. My dislike of mailing lists is general (the main reason being > that > I don't want all of that junk--especially the out of office replies--in my > inbox). But I hasten to add that it was not my intention to start a > thread > in which everyone lists the reasons why they like or dislike mailing lists > & > newsgroups. It was simply to point out that a format like Google Groups > allows the individual member to decide whether they want to participate > via > e-mail (mailing list format) or via the web-based interface (newsgroup > format). > > Perhaps the real issue behind my mini rant is this. There are two main > fora > for discussing matters related to SPSS: 1) this mailing list, and 2) the > comp.soft-sys.stat.spss (usenet) newsgroup. A few of us (Art K, Jon P, > Ryan > B, me) participate in both of them. But as far as I can tell, most of the > main players in these two fora participate in only one of them. (I > attribute that to the fact that a lot of people have a clear preference > for > which format they like, mailing list vs newsgroup.) > > IMO, the broader community of SPSS users would benefit if these two groups > of users united in a single forum. > > It seems to me that the easiest way to accomplish that would be for > members > of SPSSX-L to join comp.soft-sys.stat via Google Groups. The nice thing > about Google Groups is that it allows the individual member to decide > whether they want to participate via e-mail (mailing list format) or via > the > web-based interface (newsgroup format). So curmudgeons on both sides can > be > accommodated. ;-) > > > Cheers, > Bruce > > > > Art Kendall wrote: >> >> >> I guess that some of the reasons for preference have to do with what >> bandwith, habit, and software one uses. >> I have FIOS which is sometimes as slow as 10,000 kbits, but that is >> plenty for mail and news. >> I use Thunderbird for mail and news. I am very used to it since for >> many years I worked in classified environments and Outlook was >> considered a security risk. (I don't know whether it still its.) >> >> when I am on the road I can get to mail via netmail.verizon.com but >> that method does not have threading, shows 20 or so messages and has to >> refresh from the server every time an entry is deleted etc. >> >> Also, I have not looked at alternatives for new reading for some >> time. >> >> Also UGA is running a very old version of LISTSERV >> (18d) so that the archives are not in HTML and some other peculiarities >> that I do not recall at the moment. [APA is running LISTSERV 15.0.] >> >> I can deal with newsgroups because they are what we had before www. >> Because nntp comes from the early days it uses little bandwidth. >> 1200 >> baud was fast dial up in those days. It is simply plain text. >> However, >> it can only be filtered on subject and sender not on content. It >> does >> thread messages. Many ISPs have dropped usenet >> ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September ). >> >> I prefer the listserv approach because it allows the use of bolding, >> fixed fonts for syntax so one can show vertical structure (e.g., >> vertically align "="), filtering on content, Bayesian junk >> filtering, >> etc. Because it uses sntp one can filter, i.e., I can have >> email from >> SPSSX-L or any other source put into a separate folder including >> "suspicious". What I don't like is that when someone posts to several >> groups >> >> Would you tell use more about what you mean by "in a >> newsgroup/discussion board format"? >> I joined a Google group and get email from it, but it does not let me >> reply or post and I have not taken the time to look into it. >> >> What about listserv lists is it that you dislike? Is it particular >> to >> SPSSX-L or do you have the same problem with other lists? >> >> Art Kendall >> Social Research Consultants >> >> On 3/17/2010 3:24 PM, Bruce Weaver wrote: >> >> My response to Peter Link in another thread reminded me of a question >> that >> I've been meaning to ask about this mailing list, and about mailing lists >> in >> general. >> >> Preamble. In my experience, the world is divided into two groups of >> people*: >> >> 1. Those who love mailing lists and hate usenet. >> 2. Those who love usenet and hate mailing lists. >> >> * OK, there may some people (e.g., Jon Peck & Art Kendall) who can >> happily >> work with either format--but they can't be more than 3 or 4 in number! >> ;-) >> >> Personally, I'm in the 2nd group, and only participate in this mailing >> list >> because I can do so online via Nabble.com. >> >> Now to my question: >> >> <rant> >> Why is it that mailing lists like this one don't switch to a format like >> Google Groups, which allows people to CHOOSE which way they want to read >> & >> post? I.e., members can participate via e-mail, OR they can participate >> online (in a newsgroup/discussion board format), whichever they prefer. >> I >> suspect there are more curmudgeons like me out there who really dislike >> mailing lists, but would happily participate if they could read & >> post >> online. There are good folks who participate in comp.soft-sys.stat.spss, >> for example, who are not subscribed to this list. And vice versa. >> </rant> >> >> Cheers, >> Bruce >> >> >> ----- >> -- >> Bruce Weaver >> [hidden email] >> http://sites.google.com/a/lakeheadu.ca/bweaver/ >> "When all else fails, RTFM." >> >> NOTE: My Hotmail account is not monitored regularly. >> To send me an e-mail, please use the address shown above. >> -- >> View this message in context: >> http://old.nabble.com/Mailing-list-vs.-newsgroup-format-tp27937094p27937094.html >> Sent from the SPSSX Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >> ===================== >> To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to >> [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the >> command. To leave the list, send the command >> SIGNOFF SPSSX-L >> For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command >> INFO REFCARD >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ===================== >> To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to >> [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the >> command. To leave the list, send the command >> SIGNOFF SPSSX-L >> For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command >> INFO REFCARD >> >> > > > ----- > -- > Bruce Weaver > [hidden email] > http://sites.google.com/a/lakeheadu.ca/bweaver/ > "When all else fails, RTFM." > > NOTE: My Hotmail account is not monitored regularly. > To send me an e-mail, please use the address shown above. > -- > View this message in context: > http://old.nabble.com/Mailing-list-vs.-newsgroup-format-tp27937094p27945693.html > Sent from the SPSSX Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > ===================== > To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to > [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the > command. To leave the list, send the command > SIGNOFF SPSSX-L > For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command > INFO REFCARD > ===================== To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD |
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