Hi, I have a categorical predictor (two levels) and a categorical dependent
variable (eight levels). I want to analyze proportions. With the omnibus chi-square approach, I can run a 2x8 crosstabulation and specify columns differences with the z-test option using Bonferroni correction (significance shown with letter subindexes). However, when using the alternative multinomial approach, I get a bunch of Wald tests with associated p-values and odds ratios (when comparing 7 of the DV categories to a reference). What is not clear to me is whether this analysis uses Bonferroni correction for the tests of significance associated with the number of comparisons. This option is not explicit in Multinomial. Of course, I could divide .005/7 = .00714 and compare this value with the p-values in the table; yet I need to know whether the analysis has already done or not a correction. Thanx :) -- Sent from: http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/ ===================== To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD |
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Hello. It would be easier for folks to help if you provided some sample
data. Given that you have a 2x8 table, this can be done fairly easily with DATA LIST, like this: NEW FILE. DATASET CLOSE ALL. DATA LIST LIST / X Y N (3F5.0). BEGIN DATA 1 1 23 1 2 33 1 3 54 1 4 21 1 5 22 1 6 44 1 7 72 1 8 34 2 1 43 2 2 23 2 3 64 2 4 21 2 5 12 2 6 64 2 7 32 2 8 54 END DATA. WEIGHT by N. I made up the values in the N variable, because I don't know your cell counts. Having created some sample data, I decided to have a go at showing how NOMREG and CROSSTABS can produce the same results. Here's what I did (using the data above). * Multinomial logit model with Y=8 as reference category. NOMREG Y (BASE=LAST ORDER=ASCENDING) BY X /INTERCEPT=INCLUDE /PRINT=PARAMETER SUMMARY LRT CPS STEP MFI IC. * Now compute OR and LR Chi-sqare for series of 2x2 tables for Y=1 to 7 vs Y = 8. * Use a macro to loop through the Y-values 1-7. DEFINE !xtab_loop () !DO !i = 1 !TO 7 TEMPORARY. SELECT IF ANY(Y,!i,8). CROSSTABS X by Y /STATISTICS=CHISQ RISK. !DOEND !ENDDEFINE. !xtab_loop. The results showed that the ORs and 95% CIs from CROSSTABS matched (to 3 decimals) those from NOMREG. What I expected to also see was that the likelihood ratio Chi-square tests from CROSSTABS would match the Wald tests (for X=1) from NOMREG. But they're all off a bit, and I'm not sure why. Too late on a summer Friday afternoon, I suppose. Perhaps someone else will spot what's going on. Anyway, back to the main point: Please provide some DATA LIST code as above with your cell counts in the N column and the rest of the commands you ran (presumably NOMREG and CTABLES). HTH. sercerto wrote > Hi, I have a categorical predictor (two levels) and a categorical > dependent > variable (eight levels). I want to analyze proportions. With the omnibus > chi-square approach, I can run a 2x8 crosstabulation and specify columns > differences with the z-test option using Bonferroni correction > (significance > shown with letter subindexes). However, when using the alternative > multinomial approach, I get a bunch of Wald tests with associated p-values > and odds ratios (when comparing 7 of the DV categories to a reference). > What > is not clear to me is whether this analysis uses Bonferroni correction for > the tests of significance associated with the number of comparisons. This > option is not explicit in Multinomial. Of course, I could divide .005/7 = > .00714 and compare this value with the p-values in the table; yet I need > to > know whether the analysis has already done or not a correction. Thanx :) > > > > > -- > Sent from: http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/ > > ===================== > To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to > LISTSERV@.UGA > (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the > command. To leave the list, send the command > SIGNOFF SPSSX-L > For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command > INFO REFCARD ----- -- Bruce Weaver [hidden email] http://sites.google.com/a/lakeheadu.ca/bweaver/ "When all else fails, RTFM." NOTE: My Hotmail account is not monitored regularly. To send me an e-mail, please use the address shown above. -- Sent from: http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/ ===================== To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD
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Bruce Weaver bweaver@lakeheadu.ca http://sites.google.com/a/lakeheadu.ca/bweaver/ "When all else fails, RTFM." PLEASE NOTE THE FOLLOWING: 1. My Hotmail account is not monitored regularly. To send me an e-mail, please use the address shown above. 2. The SPSSX Discussion forum on Nabble is no longer linked to the SPSSX-L listserv administered by UGA (https://listserv.uga.edu/). |
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Hi again. Ok, I will try to be more concrete with my concern while providing
my sample. NEW FILE. DATASET CLOSE ALL. DATA LIST LIST / X Y N (3F5.0). BEGIN DATA 1 1 193 1 2 79 1 3 38 1 4 33 1 5 22 1 6 6 1 7 8 1 8 23 2 1 41 2 2 8 2 3 14 2 4 37 2 5 36 2 6 40 2 7 90 2 8 136 END DATA. WEIGHT by N These are the two main analyses I've run so far: 1) Crosstabulation, including z-test comparison between cell proportions (using Bonferroni correction) CROSSTABS /TABLES= Independent variable BY dependent variable /FORMAT=AVALUE TABLES /STATISTICS=CHISQ /CELLS=COUNT ROW COLUMN ASRESID BPROP /COUNT ROUND CELL. According to this test, proportions within cells (1-2 vs 1-3) and (2-2 vs. 2-3) are not statistically different. 2)Now, let's say that I want to run an independent 2x2 ODDs ratio between those cells. The odds ratio and associated CI are exactly the same as if I run a Multinomial analysis including the 8 categories and using, for example, category = 2 as the reference. NOMREG dependent variable (BASE=1 ORDER=ASCENDING) BY independent variable /CRITERIA CIN(95) DELTA(0) MXITER(100) MXSTEP(5) CHKSEP(20) LCONVERGE(0) PCONVERGE(0.000001) SINGULAR(0.00000001) /MODEL /STEPWISE=PIN(.05) POUT(0.1) MINEFFECT(0) RULE(SINGLE) ENTRYMETHOD(LR) REMOVALMETHOD(LR) /INTERCEPT=INCLUDE /PRINT=PARAMETER SUMMARY LRT CPS STEP MFI. The p-values with regard to the chi-square test within these two analyses slightly differ (independent 2x2 p = .006; with multinomial p = .008). Therefore, in contrast to the z-test, there are significant differences. My conclusion is that Multinomial run 7 independent 2x2 Odds ratio tests and display them in a table. However, if I consider a Bonferroni correction on 7 simultaneous tests .05/7, my p-value of reference would be p=.0071. Consequently, the above mentioned significant result when running multinomial would not be significant anymore, thus, being in line with the z-test. Therefore, the question that I am raising here is whether multinomial uses correction for multiple simultaneous tests or not. -- Sent from: http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/ ===================== To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD |
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Thanks for posting your data. AFAIK, no regression type commands in SPSS (or
any other stats package) apply a Bonferroni correction for multiple tests in the table of coefficients. To convince yourself that no correction is being applied by NOMREG, try the following: * Compute the Wald tests and ORs "by hand". NEW FILE. DATASET CLOSE ALL. DATA LIST LIST / a b c d (4F5.0). BEGIN DATA 79 193 8 41 38 193 14 41 33 193 37 41 22 193 36 41 6 193 40 41 8 193 90 41 23 193 136 41 END DATA. COMPUTE OR_ = a*d/(b*c). COMPUTE logOR = ln(OR_). COMPUTE se = sqrt(1/a + 1/b + 1/c + 1/d). COMPUTE Lower = exp(logOR-1.96*se). COMPUTE Upper = exp(logOR+1.96*se). COMPUTE Wald = (logOR/se)**2. COMPUTE p = 1- CDF.CHISQ(Wald,1). FORMATS Wald p OR_ Lower Upper (F9.3). LIST a to d Wald p OR_ Lower Upper. Output from LIST: a b c d Wald p OR_ Lower Upper 79 193 8 41 3.282 .070 2.098 .941 4.676 38 193 14 41 2.381 .123 .577 .287 1.160 33 193 37 41 31.844 .000 .189 .106 .338 22 193 36 41 40.544 .000 .130 .069 .243 6 193 40 41 53.682 .000 .032 .013 .080 8 193 90 41 95.102 .000 .019 .009 .042 23 193 136 41 137.609 .000 .036 .021 .063 These results match those I see in the table of parameter estimates when I run your NOMREG command. HTH. sercerto wrote > --- snip --- > > Therefore, the question that I am raising here is whether multinomial uses > correction for multiple simultaneous tests or not. ----- -- Bruce Weaver [hidden email] http://sites.google.com/a/lakeheadu.ca/bweaver/ "When all else fails, RTFM." NOTE: My Hotmail account is not monitored regularly. To send me an e-mail, please use the address shown above. -- Sent from: http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/ ===================== To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD
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Bruce Weaver bweaver@lakeheadu.ca http://sites.google.com/a/lakeheadu.ca/bweaver/ "When all else fails, RTFM." PLEASE NOTE THE FOLLOWING: 1. My Hotmail account is not monitored regularly. To send me an e-mail, please use the address shown above. 2. The SPSSX Discussion forum on Nabble is no longer linked to the SPSSX-L listserv administered by UGA (https://listserv.uga.edu/). |
If you want to correct for multiple tests from any set of sig levels you can use the STATS PADJUST extension command, downloadable via Extensions > Extension Hub. It offer Bonferroni, the less conservative Benjamini-Hochberg FDR, and four others. On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 3:27 PM Bruce Weaver <[hidden email]> wrote: Thanks for posting your data. AFAIK, no regression type commands in SPSS (or |
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Thanks for your answers.
My question is much clearer now ;) Just in case somebody is interested in post-hoc tests on Chi-square analyses and different types of multiple comparison alpha corrections, I recommend these two publications: **Sharpe, D. (2015). Your Chi-square is statistically significant: Now what?. Practical Assessment, Research, & Evaluation, 20(8) **Chen, S. Y., Feng, Z., & Yi, X. (2017). A general introduction to adjustment for multiple comparisons, 9(6), 1725-1729 -- Sent from: http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/ ===================== To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD |
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Thanks for the references. I just took a quick peek at the one by Sharpe
(2015), and was pleased to see that it has a section on partitioning the overall Chi-square into a series of smaller tables. I was taught that approach years ago in a grad stats class, but have not seen it used all that frequently by other folks. sercerto wrote > Thanks for your answers. > My question is much clearer now ;) > > Just in case somebody is interested in post-hoc tests on Chi-square > analyses and different types of multiple comparison alpha corrections, I > recommend these two publications: > > **Sharpe, D. (2015). Your Chi-square is statistically significant: Now > what?. Practical Assessment, Research, & Evaluation, 20(8) > > **Chen, S. Y., Feng, Z., & Yi, X. (2017). A general introduction to > adjustment for multiple comparisons, 9(6), 1725-1729 > > > -- > Sent from: http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/ > > ===================== > To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to > [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the > command. To leave the list, send the command > SIGNOFF SPSSX-L > For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command > INFO REFCARD ----- -- Bruce Weaver [hidden email] http://sites.google.com/a/lakeheadu.ca/bweaver/ "When all else fails, RTFM." NOTE: My Hotmail account is not monitored regularly. To send me an e-mail, please use the address shown above. -- Sent from: http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/ ===================== To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD
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Bruce Weaver bweaver@lakeheadu.ca http://sites.google.com/a/lakeheadu.ca/bweaver/ "When all else fails, RTFM." PLEASE NOTE THE FOLLOWING: 1. My Hotmail account is not monitored regularly. To send me an e-mail, please use the address shown above. 2. The SPSSX Discussion forum on Nabble is no longer linked to the SPSSX-L listserv administered by UGA (https://listserv.uga.edu/). |
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