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Not an SPSS question.

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Salbod

Not an SPSS question.

I'm having a grand time reading David Salsburg's book "The lady tasting tea: How statistics revolutionized science in the twentieth century". I had the book on my shelf for a couple of years. Why I didn't read it I have no idea. I finally opened it; what a page turner! Today I was surprised that FA Fisher was associated with psychical research. I've attached for your reading pleasure, Fisher's article printed in the Proceedings of the Society for Psychical Research in 1929. It is in this article he drops his significance bomb (p = .05)!

RA_Fisher-StatisticalMethods-PsychialReserach.pdf

Mike

Re: Not an SPSS question.

I too have Salsburg's book sitting on my shelf and every time I
try to read it, I fall asleep by page 3. Actually, I just find his
writing
style incredibly annoying but, clearly, that is just me. However,
let me suggest an article by Ian Hacking that puts the role of
randomization and control in experiments in historical context
but through the history of psychical research in Europe and the U.S.
Here is the reference:

Hacking, I. (1988). Telepathy: origins of randomization in experimental
design. Isis, 79(3), 427-451.
(do a Google search and you may find a copy of the article that
is freely available on the web).

Hacking notes the Fisher thought psychical research was "baloney"
(noted in Joan Fisher Box's biography of her father) but given the
popularity of psychical research in the late 19th and early 20th
century (e.g., when Stanford U came into existence is had a
specially funded lab for psychical research in its psychology dept;
Hacking provides details and this is an important point late in his
article) it should not be surprising that Fisher would publish in
one of the journals devoted to psychical research. But a moment's
reflection should serve to make one aware that deciding whether
milk is poured into the teacup first or after the tea has been poured
in is not too dissimilar to the standard psychical tests, such as
whether a red card or a black card has been drawn from a
shuffled deck. In the long run, what is important is whether the
appropriate controls have been used and whether the appropriate
statistical analyses have been done. This can be applied to many
areas outside of psychical research. Hacking also points out the
"joke" that Fisher appears to playing regarding the lady tasting tea
and role that class distinction played (HINT: search for "miffy").

-Mike Palij
New York University
[hidden email]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Salbod" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 11:21 AM
Subject: Not an SPSS question.

> I'm having a grand time reading David Salsburg's book "The lady
> tasting tea:
> How statistics revolutionized science in the twentieth century". I had
> the
> book on my shelf for a couple of years. Why I didn't read it I have no
> idea.
> I finally opened it; what a page turner! Today I was surprised that FA
> Fisher was associated with psychical research. I've attached for your
> reading pleasure, Fisher's article printed in the Proceedings of the
> Society
> for Psychical Research in 1929. It is in this article he drops his
> significance bomb (p = .05)!
>
> RA_Fisher-StatisticalMethods-PsychialReserach.pdf
> <http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/file/n5723703/RA_Fisher-StatisticalMethods-PsychialReserach.pdf>

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Salbod

Re: Not an SPSS question.

Thank you, Mike. You're comments pique my interest. I look forward to reading the article. I'm putting the article on my desk not my shelf.

I know Fisher's feud with Pearson restricted the journals open to him. I thought this might have been a way around it. But, enough said, let me read what Hacking has to say.

--Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Palij [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 1:27 PM
To: Salbod, Mr. Stephen; [hidden email]
Cc: Michael Palij
Subject: Re: Not an SPSS question.

I too have Salsburg's book sitting on my shelf and every time I try to read it, I fall asleep by page 3. Actually, I just find his writing style incredibly annoying but, clearly, that is just me. However, let me suggest an article by Ian Hacking that puts the role of randomization and control in experiments in historical context but through the history of psychical research in Europe and the U.S.
Here is the reference:

Hacking, I. (1988). Telepathy: origins of randomization in experimental design. Isis, 79(3), 427-451.
(do a Google search and you may find a copy of the article that is freely available on the web).

Hacking notes the Fisher thought psychical research was "baloney"
(noted in Joan Fisher Box's biography of her father) but given the popularity of psychical research in the late 19th and early 20th century (e.g., when Stanford U came into existence is had a specially funded lab for psychical research in its psychology dept; Hacking provides details and this is an important point late in his
article) it should not be surprising that Fisher would publish in one of the journals devoted to psychical research. But a moment's reflection should serve to make one aware that deciding whether milk is poured into the teacup first or after the tea has been poured in is not too dissimilar to the standard psychical tests, such as whether a red card or a black card has been drawn from a shuffled deck. In the long run, what is important is whether the appropriate controls have been used and whether the appropriate statistical analyses have been done. This can be applied to many areas outside of psychical research. Hacking also points out the "joke" that Fisher appears to playing regarding the lady tasting tea and role that class distinction played (HINT: search for "miffy").

-Mike Palij
New York University
[hidden email]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Salbod" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 11:21 AM
Subject: Not an SPSS question.

Salbod

Re: Not an SPSS question.

In reply to this post by Mike

Hi Mike: I sat stunned after reading Hacking article. I never would have considered Sir Ronald Aylmer Fisher and Jonathan Swift to share humor, but they do. Now, I cannot believe I seriously read the Lady and Tea story without seeing the humor. Thank you for shining a light on RA Fisher.

Happy Holidays, Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Palij [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 1:27 PM
To: Salbod, Mr. Stephen; [hidden email]
Cc: Michael Palij
Subject: Re: Not an SPSS question.

I too have Salsburg's book sitting on my shelf and every time I try to read it, I fall asleep by page 3. Actually, I just find his writing style incredibly annoying but, clearly, that is just me. However, let me suggest an article by Ian Hacking that puts the role of randomization and control in experiments in historical context but through the history of psychical research in Europe and the U.S.
Here is the reference:

Hacking, I. (1988). Telepathy: origins of randomization in experimental design. Isis, 79(3), 427-451.
(do a Google search and you may find a copy of the article that is freely available on the web).

Hacking notes the Fisher thought psychical research was "baloney"
(noted in Joan Fisher Box's biography of her father) but given the popularity of psychical research in the late 19th and early 20th century (e.g., when Stanford U came into existence is had a specially funded lab for psychical research in its psychology dept; Hacking provides details and this is an important point late in his
article) it should not be surprising that Fisher would publish in one of the journals devoted to psychical research. But a moment's reflection should serve to make one aware that deciding whether milk is poured into the teacup first or after the tea has been poured in is not too dissimilar to the standard psychical tests, such as whether a red card or a black card has been drawn from a shuffled deck. In the long run, what is important is whether the appropriate controls have been used and whether the appropriate statistical analyses have been done. This can be applied to many areas outside of psychical research. Hacking also points out the "joke" that Fisher appears to playing regarding the lady tasting tea and role that class distinction played (HINT: search for "miffy").

-Mike Palij
New York University
[hidden email]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Salbod" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 11:21 AM
Subject: Not an SPSS question.