SPSSX Discussion

"Python has pretty much made macros obsolete"

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Bruce Weaver

"Python has pretty much made macros obsolete"

Administrator

The subject line is a statement Art Kendall made in the "Repeated Statistical Procedure for different subsets" thread (http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/Repeated-Statistical-Procedure-for-different-subsets-td4416436.html). At the risk of riling up the Python evangelists in the group, I echo the comments I made in on older thread.

http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/Simple-I-think-problem-with-a-Macro-td1091147.html

Let me re-iterate that I am not running down Python. Rather, I am making a comment about typical academic users I know. These people do not analyze data all day every day. Rather, they analyze data occasionally, and many of them are fairly limited in their abilities, even with garden variety syntax. IMO, they are not terribly motivated to install add-ons that are somewhat fiddly. And yes, fiddliness is in the eye/mind of the beholder; but IMO, the folks I am thinking of would find it VERY fiddly.

Also, we must not forget that some folks are still using old versions that do not support Python, R, etc.

So while I do not often disagree with Art, I think that rumors of the death of macros are greatly exaggerated.

Ducking, and donning my flame retardant suit as I click "Post Message".... ;-)

--
Bruce Weaver
bweaver@lakeheadu.ca
http://sites.google.com/a/lakeheadu.ca/bweaver/

"When all else fails, RTFM."

PLEASE NOTE THE FOLLOWING:
1. My Hotmail account is not monitored regularly. To send me an e-mail, please use the address shown above.
2. The SPSSX Discussion forum on Nabble is no longer linked to the SPSSX-L listserv administered by UGA (https://listserv.uga.edu/).

Art Kendall

Re: "Python has pretty much made macros obsolete"

You are correct. I wrote too tersely and overstated a bit.

I should have said something more like "If one were starting to expand his/her SPSS capabilities and had a current version of SPSS, I would advocate starting with Python. It does many of the things that macros do."

I stand by the idea that the OP may not have to go beyond SPSS itself and into python or macros.

These days most academic users should know how to communicate effectively with colleagues who specialize more in methods and stat.
The old model that one must do everything on one's own is counterproductive and "winging it" could be unethical. The typical academic would typically have no need for either macros or python.

Art Kendall
Social Research Consultants

On 5/22/2011 11:07 AM, Bruce Weaver wrote:

The subject line is a statement Art Kendall made in the "Repeated Statistical
Procedure for different subsets" thread
(http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/Repeated-Statistical-Procedure-for-different-subsets-td4416436.html).
At the risk of riling up the Python evangelists in the group, I echo the
comments I made in on older thread.


http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/Simple-I-think-problem-with-a-Macro-td1091147.html

Let me re-iterate that I am not running down Python.  Rather, I am making a
comment about typical academic users I know.  These people do not analyze
data all day every day.  Rather, they analyze data occasionally, and many of
them are fairly limited in their abilities, even with garden variety syntax.
IMO, they are not terribly motivated to install add-ons that are somewhat
fiddly.  And yes, fiddliness is in the eye/mind of the beholder; but IMO,
the folks I am thinking of would find it VERY fiddly.

Also, we must not forget that some folks are still using old versions that
do not support Python, R, etc.

So while I do not often disagree with Art, I think that rumors of the death
of macros are greatly exaggerated.

Ducking, and donning my flame retardant suit as I click "Post Message"....
;-)



-----
--
Bruce Weaver
[hidden email]
http://sites.google.com/a/lakeheadu.ca/bweaver/

"When all else fails, RTFM."

NOTE: My Hotmail account is not monitored regularly.
To send me an e-mail, please use the address shown above.

--
View this message in context: http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/Python-has-pretty-much-made-macros-obsolete-tp4416901p4416901.html
Sent from the SPSSX Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Art Kendall
Social Research Consultants

ViAnn Beadle

Re: "Python has pretty much made macros obsolete"

In reply to this post by Bruce Weaver

How many of the academic users that you know need macros? And do you tell
them how limited macros are--no arithmetic, no knowledge of dictionary, no
knowledge of data.

I agree that there are still too many moving parts in getting SPSS, Python,
and R to work together but it is getting better.

-----Original Message-----
From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
Bruce Weaver
Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2011 9:07 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: "Python has pretty much made macros obsolete"

The subject line is a statement Art Kendall made in the "Repeated
Statistical Procedure for different subsets" thread
(http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/Repeated-Statistical-Procedur
e-for-different-subsets-td4416436.html).
At the risk of riling up the Python evangelists in the group, I echo the
comments I made in on older thread.

http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/Simple-I-think-problem-with-a-
Macro-td1091147.html

Let me re-iterate that I am not running down Python. Rather, I am making a
comment about typical academic users I know. These people do not analyze
data all day every day. Rather, they analyze data occasionally, and many of
them are fairly limited in their abilities, even with garden variety syntax.
IMO, they are not terribly motivated to install add-ons that are somewhat
fiddly. And yes, fiddliness is in the eye/mind of the beholder; but IMO,
the folks I am thinking of would find it VERY fiddly.

Also, we must not forget that some folks are still using old versions that
do not support Python, R, etc.

So while I do not often disagree with Art, I think that rumors of the death
of macros are greatly exaggerated.

Ducking, and donning my flame retardant suit as I click "Post Message"....
;-)

-----
--
Bruce Weaver
[hidden email]
http://sites.google.com/a/lakeheadu.ca/bweaver/

"When all else fails, RTFM."

NOTE: My Hotmail account is not monitored regularly.
To send me an e-mail, please use the address shown above.

--
View this message in context:
http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/Python-has-pretty-much-made-ma
cros-obsolete-tp4416901p4416901.html
Sent from the SPSSX Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

=====================
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=====================
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Jon K Peck

Re: "Python has pretty much made macros obsolete"

In reply to this post by Bruce Weaver

Let me suggest an important distinction between users of extensions that happen to be implemented in Python or R vs programming in these languages within SPSS Statistics. Many of the extension commands make things easier for ordinary users and require no knowledge of Python or R, and some provide important statistical extensions to Statistics. To cite an example that is fairly popular: SPSSINC CREATE DUMMIES, which includes a dialog box interface, creates a nicely labeled basis of dummy variables for a categorical variable without the user having to specify the values. Sure, you could do this yourself with traditional syntax or the dialogs, but the extension command makes it a lot easier and less error prone.

All the user has to do to get this command if they have Version 19 is to download the Python Essentials from the SPSS Community site and double click it. With Version 18 and earlier, it is a little more work, but it still requires no programming knowledge.

Many of the extensions are a little bit esoteric or out of the mainstream, but when you have the problems they address, they make things a lot easier.

<dousing flame thrower>

Jon Peck
Senior Software Engineer, IBM
[hidden email]
new phone: 720-342-5621

From: Bruce Weaver <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Date: 05/22/2011 09:10 AM
Subject: [SPSSX-L] "Python has pretty much made macros obsolete"
Sent by: "SPSSX(r) Discussion" <[hidden email]>

The subject line is a statement Art Kendall made in the "Repeated Statistical Procedure for different subsets" thread (http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/Repeated-Statistical-Procedure-for-different-subsets-td4416436.html). At the risk of riling up the Python evangelists in the group, I echo the comments I made in on older thread.http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/Simple-I-think-problem-with-a-Macro-td1091147.htmlLet me re-iterate that I am not running down Python. Rather, I am making a comment about typical academic users I know. These people do not analyze data all day every day. Rather, they analyze data occasionally, and many of them are fairly limited in their abilities, even with garden variety syntax. IMO, they are not terribly motivated to install add-ons that are somewhat fiddly. And yes, fiddliness is in the eye/mind of the beholder; but IMO, the folks I am thinking of would find it VERY fiddly. Also, we must not forget that some folks are still using old versions that do not support Python, R, etc. So while I do not often disagree with Art, I think that rumors of the death of macros are greatly exaggerated. Ducking, and donning my flame retardant suit as I click "Post Message".... ;-) ----- -- Bruce Weaver [hidden email]http://sites.google.com/a/lakeheadu.ca/bweaver/"When all else fails, RTFM." NOTE: My Hotmail account is not monitored regularly. To send me an e-mail, please use the address shown above. -- View this message in context:http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/Python-has-pretty-much-made-macros-obsolete-tp4416901p4416901.htmlSent from the SPSSX Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ===================== To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD

Bruce Weaver

Re: "Python has pretty much made macros obsolete"

Administrator

In reply to this post by ViAnn Beadle

Hi ViAnn. The users I am thinking of would never write a macro, but might use one written by someone else--e.g., Kristopher Preacher (http://www.people.ku.edu/~preacher/medn.htm) or Brian O'Connor (https://people.ok.ubc.ca/brioconn/). For these kinds of users, not having to install anything special is a big factor, I think.

Re your "too many moving parts" comment, is it too much to hope that installation of the add-ons will someday be as easy as "update all" in Stata? Why could it not be done through the GUI (perhaps Utilities - Install Python Essentials)? I think this would go a long way in getting more people to use extension commands etc.

Cheers,
Bruce

ViAnn Beadle wrote

How many of the academic users that you know need macros? And do you tell
them how limited macros are--no arithmetic, no knowledge of dictionary, no
knowledge of data.

I agree that there are still too many moving parts in getting SPSS, Python,
and R to work together but it is getting better.

-----Original Message-----
From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
Bruce Weaver
Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2011 9:07 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: "Python has pretty much made macros obsolete"

The subject line is a statement Art Kendall made in the "Repeated
Statistical Procedure for different subsets" thread
(http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/Repeated-Statistical-Procedur
e-for-different-subsets-td4416436.html).
At the risk of riling up the Python evangelists in the group, I echo the
comments I made in on older thread.

http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/Simple-I-think-problem-with-a-
Macro-td1091147.html

Let me re-iterate that I am not running down Python. Rather, I am making a
comment about typical academic users I know. These people do not analyze
data all day every day. Rather, they analyze data occasionally, and many of
them are fairly limited in their abilities, even with garden variety syntax.
IMO, they are not terribly motivated to install add-ons that are somewhat
fiddly. And yes, fiddliness is in the eye/mind of the beholder; but IMO,
the folks I am thinking of would find it VERY fiddly.

Also, we must not forget that some folks are still using old versions that
do not support Python, R, etc.

So while I do not often disagree with Art, I think that rumors of the death
of macros are greatly exaggerated.

Ducking, and donning my flame retardant suit as I click "Post Message"....
;-)

-----
--
Bruce Weaver
[hidden email]
http://sites.google.com/a/lakeheadu.ca/bweaver/

"When all else fails, RTFM."

NOTE: My Hotmail account is not monitored regularly.
To send me an e-mail, please use the address shown above.

--
View this message in context:
http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/Python-has-pretty-much-made-ma
cros-obsolete-tp4416901p4416901.html
Sent from the SPSSX Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

=====================
To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to
[hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the
command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of
commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD

=====================
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Bruce Weaver

Re: "Python has pretty much made macros obsolete"

Administrator

In reply to this post by Jon K Peck

Hi Jon. Yes, this is an important distinction. But as I noted in my reply to ViAnn, I think that many of the users I know would be a lot more likely to use extension commands if they could install the necessary bits via the GUI, or a simple command. Perhaps in version 20? ;-)

Bruce

Jon K Peck wrote

Let me suggest an important distinction between users of extensions that
happen to be implemented in Python or R vs programming in these languages
within SPSS Statistics. Many of the extension commands make things easier
for ordinary users and require no knowledge of Python or R, and some
provide important statistical extensions to Statistics. To cite an
example that is fairly popular: SPSSINC CREATE DUMMIES, which includes a
dialog box interface, creates a nicely labeled basis of dummy variables
for a categorical variable without the user having to specify the values.
Sure, you could do this yourself with traditional syntax or the dialogs,
but the extension command makes it a lot easier and less error prone.

All the user has to do to get this command if they have Version 19 is to
download the Python Essentials from the SPSS Community site and double
click it. With Version 18 and earlier, it is a little more work, but it
still requires no programming knowledge.

Many of the extensions are a little bit esoteric or out of the mainstream,
but when you have the problems they address, they make things a lot
easier.

<dousing flame thrower>

Jon Peck
Senior Software Engineer, IBM
[hidden email]
new phone: 720-342-5621

From: Bruce Weaver <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Date: 05/22/2011 09:10 AM
Subject: [SPSSX-L] "Python has pretty much made macros obsolete"
Sent by: "SPSSX(r) Discussion" <[hidden email]>

The subject line is a statement Art Kendall made in the "Repeated
Statistical
Procedure for different subsets" thread
(
http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/Repeated-Statistical-Procedure-for-different-subsets-td4416436.html
).
At the risk of riling up the Python evangelists in the group, I echo the
comments I made in on older thread.

http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/Simple-I-think-problem-with-a-Macro-td1091147.html

Let me re-iterate that I am not running down Python. Rather, I am making
a
comment about typical academic users I know. These people do not analyze
data all day every day. Rather, they analyze data occasionally, and many
of
them are fairly limited in their abilities, even with garden variety
syntax.
IMO, they are not terribly motivated to install add-ons that are somewhat
fiddly. And yes, fiddliness is in the eye/mind of the beholder; but IMO,
the folks I am thinking of would find it VERY fiddly.

Also, we must not forget that some folks are still using old versions that
do not support Python, R, etc.

So while I do not often disagree with Art, I think that rumors of the
death
of macros are greatly exaggerated.

Ducking, and donning my flame retardant suit as I click "Post Message"....
;-)

-----
--
Bruce Weaver
[hidden email]
http://sites.google.com/a/lakeheadu.ca/bweaver/

"When all else fails, RTFM."

NOTE: My Hotmail account is not monitored regularly.
To send me an e-mail, please use the address shown above.

--
View this message in context:
http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/Python-has-pretty-much-made-macros-obsolete-tp4416901p4416901.html

Sent from the SPSSX Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

=====================
To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to
[hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the
command. To leave the list, send the command
SIGNOFF SPSSX-L
For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command
INFO REFCARD

ViAnn Beadle

Re: "Python has pretty much made macros obsolete"

The extensions authored by IBM developers like Jon are installed via the
Python installer GUI. If folks can't use it, they must not be able to
install SPSS itself ;-) Extensions authored by others involve copying files
to the places that Python Essentials expects them. Somebody probably needs
to write a simple wrapper install that python extension authors can use to
distribute their programs.

-----Original Message-----
From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
Bruce Weaver
Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2011 6:18 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: "Python has pretty much made macros obsolete"

Hi Jon. Yes, this is an important distinction. But as I noted in my reply
to ViAnn, I think that many of the users I know would be a lot more likely
to use extension commands if they could install the necessary bits via the
GUI, or a simple command. Perhaps in version 20? ;-)

Bruce

Jon K Peck wrote:
>
> Let me suggest an important distinction between users of extensions
> that happen to be implemented in Python or R vs programming in these
> languages within SPSS Statistics. Many of the extension commands make
> things easier for ordinary users and require no knowledge of Python or
> R, and some provide important statistical extensions to Statistics.
> To cite an example that is fairly popular: SPSSINC CREATE DUMMIES,
> which includes a dialog box interface, creates a nicely labeled basis
> of dummy variables for a categorical variable without the user having to
specify the values.
> Sure, you could do this yourself with traditional syntax or the
> dialogs, but the extension command makes it a lot easier and less error
prone.

>
> All the user has to do to get this command if they have Version 19 is
> to download the Python Essentials from the SPSS Community site and
> double click it. With Version 18 and earlier, it is a little more
> work, but it still requires no programming knowledge.
>
> Many of the extensions are a little bit esoteric or out of the
> mainstream, but when you have the problems they address, they make
> things a lot easier.
>
> <dousing flame thrower>
>
> Jon Peck
> Senior Software Engineer, IBM
> [hidden email]
> new phone: 720-342-5621
>
>
>
>
> From: Bruce Weaver <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: 05/22/2011 09:10 AM
> Subject: [SPSSX-L] "Python has pretty much made macros obsolete"
> Sent by: "SPSSX(r) Discussion" <[hidden email]>
>
>
>
> The subject line is a statement Art Kendall made in the "Repeated
> Statistical Procedure for different subsets" thread (
> http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/Repeated-Statistical-Pro
> cedure-for-different-subsets-td4416436.html
> ).
> At the risk of riling up the Python evangelists in the group, I echo
> the comments I made in on older thread.
>
>
> http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/Simple-I-think-problem-w
> ith-a-Macro-td1091147.html
>
>
> Let me re-iterate that I am not running down Python. Rather, I am
> making a comment about typical academic users I know. These people do
> not analyze data all day every day. Rather, they analyze data
> occasionally, and many of them are fairly limited in their abilities,
> even with garden variety syntax.
> IMO, they are not terribly motivated to install add-ons that are
> somewhat fiddly. And yes, fiddliness is in the eye/mind of the
> beholder; but IMO, the folks I am thinking of would find it VERY fiddly.
>
> Also, we must not forget that some folks are still using old versions
> that do not support Python, R, etc.
>
> So while I do not often disagree with Art, I think that rumors of the
> death of macros are greatly exaggerated.
>
> Ducking, and donning my flame retardant suit as I click "Post Message"....
> ;-)
>
>
>
> -----
> --
> Bruce Weaver
> [hidden email]
> http://sites.google.com/a/lakeheadu.ca/bweaver/
>
> "When all else fails, RTFM."
>
> NOTE: My Hotmail account is not monitored regularly.
> To send me an e-mail, please use the address shown above.
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/Python-has-pretty-much-m
> ade-macros-obsolete-tp4416901p4416901.html
>
> Sent from the SPSSX Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> =====================
> To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to
> [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except
> the command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a
> list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO
> REFCARD
>

-----
--
Bruce Weaver
[hidden email]
http://sites.google.com/a/lakeheadu.ca/bweaver/

"When all else fails, RTFM."

NOTE: My Hotmail account is not monitored regularly.
To send me an e-mail, please use the address shown above.

--
View this message in context:
http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/Python-has-pretty-much-made-ma
cros-obsolete-tp4416901p4417792.html
Sent from the SPSSX Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

=====================
To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to
[hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the
command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of
commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD

=====================
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[hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the
command. To leave the list, send the command
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For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command
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wsu_wright

Re: "Python has pretty much made macros obsolete"

In reply to this post by Bruce Weaver

I agree with both Bruce & ViAnn, at least in regards to not having a
single install point. I develop and share syntax files across a
community of some 30 users on campus, many of these are programmers who
use spss only to create etl builds for denormalized tables for spss
users, the other 95% of their time is spent in sql related products.
Since the syntax files are part of a library open to all users, some of
whom I don't know concerning their spss installation, I cannot afford to
have a syntax file in circulation that will not run because someone
doesn't have python installed. This is the only reason I have had to
stay away from Python, I cannot guarantee that all my users will be able
to use the syntax files. I understand the legal obstacles to having
python included in the SPSS install, but it still creates a pain when
sharing.

David

On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 8:04 PM, ViAnn Beadle wrote:

> The extensions authored by IBM developers like Jon are installed via
> the
> Python installer GUI. If folks can't use it, they must not be able to
> install SPSS itself ;-) Extensions authored by others involve copying
> files
> to the places that Python Essentials expects them. Somebody probably
> needs
> to write a simple wrapper install that python extension authors can
> use to
> distribute their programs.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
> Of
> Bruce Weaver
> Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2011 6:18 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: "Python has pretty much made macros obsolete"
>
> Hi Jon. Yes, this is an important distinction. But as I noted in my
> reply
> to ViAnn, I think that many of the users I know would be a lot more
> likely
> to use extension commands if they could install the necessary bits via
> the
> GUI, or a simple command. Perhaps in version 20? ;-)
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
> Jon K Peck wrote:
>>
>> Let me suggest an important distinction between users of extensions
>> that happen to be implemented in Python or R vs programming in these
>> languages within SPSS Statistics. Many of the extension commands
>> make
>> things easier for ordinary users and require no knowledge of Python
>> or
>> R, and some provide important statistical extensions to Statistics.
>> To cite an example that is fairly popular: SPSSINC CREATE DUMMIES,
>> which includes a dialog box interface, creates a nicely labeled basis
>> of dummy variables for a categorical variable without the user having
>> to
> specify the values.
>> Sure, you could do this yourself with traditional syntax or the
>> dialogs, but the extension command makes it a lot easier and less
>> error
> prone.
>>
>> All the user has to do to get this command if they have Version 19 is
>> to download the Python Essentials from the SPSS Community site and
>> double click it. With Version 18 and earlier, it is a little more
>> work, but it still requires no programming knowledge.
>>
>> Many of the extensions are a little bit esoteric or out of the
>> mainstream, but when you have the problems they address, they make
>> things a lot easier.
>>
>> <dousing flame thrower>
>>
>> Jon Peck
>> Senior Software Engineer, IBM
>> [hidden email]
>> new phone: 720-342-5621
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Bruce Weaver <[hidden email]>
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Date: 05/22/2011 09:10 AM
>> Subject: [SPSSX-L] "Python has pretty much made macros
>> obsolete"
>> Sent by: "SPSSX(r) Discussion"
>> <[hidden email]>
>>
>>
>>
>> The subject line is a statement Art Kendall made in the "Repeated
>> Statistical Procedure for different subsets" thread (
>>
>> http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/Repeated-Statistical-Pro
>> cedure-for-different-subsets-td4416436.html
>> ).
>> At the risk of riling up the Python evangelists in the group, I echo
>> the comments I made in on older thread.
>>
>>
>>
>> http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/Simple-I-think-problem-w
>> ith-a-Macro-td1091147.html
>>
>>
>> Let me re-iterate that I am not running down Python. Rather, I am
>> making a comment about typical academic users I know. These people
>> do
>> not analyze data all day every day. Rather, they analyze data
>> occasionally, and many of them are fairly limited in their abilities,
>> even with garden variety syntax.
>> IMO, they are not terribly motivated to install add-ons that are
>> somewhat fiddly. And yes, fiddliness is in the eye/mind of the
>> beholder; but IMO, the folks I am thinking of would find it VERY
>> fiddly.
>>
>> Also, we must not forget that some folks are still using old versions
>> that do not support Python, R, etc.
>>
>> So while I do not often disagree with Art, I think that rumors of the
>> death of macros are greatly exaggerated.
>>
>> Ducking, and donning my flame retardant suit as I click "Post
>> Message"....
>> ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> --
>> Bruce Weaver
>> [hidden email]
>> http://sites.google.com/a/lakeheadu.ca/bweaver/
>>
>> "When all else fails, RTFM."
>>
>> NOTE: My Hotmail account is not monitored regularly.
>> To send me an e-mail, please use the address shown above.
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>>
>> http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/Python-has-pretty-much-m
>> ade-macros-obsolete-tp4416901p4416901.html
>>
>> Sent from the SPSSX Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
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>> REFCARD
>>
>
>
> -----
> --
> Bruce Weaver
> [hidden email]
> http://sites.google.com/a/lakeheadu.ca/bweaver/
>
> "When all else fails, RTFM."
>
> NOTE: My Hotmail account is not monitored regularly.
> To send me an e-mail, please use the address shown above.
>
> --
> View this message in context:
>
> http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/Python-has-pretty-much-made-ma
> cros-obsolete-tp4416901p4417792.html
> Sent from the SPSSX Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> =====================
> To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to
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>
> =====================
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Robert Walker

Re: "Python has pretty much made macros obsolete"

I would not run down Python either; it is powerful, adds tremendous functionality, and does things that macros cannot now do. But I would add that it has been a bit disappointing to me, over the years, not to have seen any new functionality added to the macro utility itself. All of the development effort seems to have been put against Python, taking the user completely out of the SPSS ‘environment’. And this often seems to be the case in software generally: it is probably easier to move on to the ‘next great thing’ than to spend time making an existing thing better. Not much sizzle in that. But once mastered, macros are very code efficient and elegant in their simplicity. Since I am not very bright, I rather like simple. In my file manipulation work (add, match, aggregate) and monthly repetitive tasks, macros work very nicely whether Python is there or not. So I concur with Bruce's original comment, in that there is more life in this little gem than most of us would like to admit.

Regards,

Bob Walker
Surveys & Forecasts, LLC
www.safllc.com

-----Original Message-----
From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of David Wright
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 6:18 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: "Python has pretty much made macros obsolete"

I agree with both Bruce & ViAnn, at least in regards to not having a
single install point. I develop and share syntax files across a
community of some 30 users on campus, many of these are programmers who
use spss only to create etl builds for denormalized tables for spss
users, the other 95% of their time is spent in sql related products.
Since the syntax files are part of a library open to all users, some of
whom I don't know concerning their spss installation, I cannot afford to
have a syntax file in circulation that will not run because someone
doesn't have python installed. This is the only reason I have had to
stay away from Python, I cannot guarantee that all my users will be able
to use the syntax files. I understand the legal obstacles to having
python included in the SPSS install, but it still creates a pain when
sharing.

David

On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 8:04 PM, ViAnn Beadle wrote:

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