SPSSX Discussion

Quad Core Processors

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Bob Walker-2

Quad Core Processors

Hi all… am in the market for a new machine. Has anyone had any experience running PASW on a quad core processor?

PASW is one of my primary apps, so I’m trying to understand: is there is any meaningful difference (better or worse) between dual core vs. quad core machines running a 32-bit OS? Alternatively, would there be any real difference between a quad core machine running a 32-bit vs. 64-bit OS (e.g., Win7), since 32-bit instructions would have to be stepped down to ensure backward compatibility, no?

Any insights most appreciated!

TIA,

Regards,

Bob Walker

Surveys & Forecasts, LLC

www.safllc.com

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Michael Kruger

Re: Quad Core Processors

Bob Walker wrote:
> Bob,
>
> I have been running PASW)v. 17.0) on a quad core processer with 64-bit
> Windows as the OS at work and at home and on a notebook with the 32
> bit OS. I cna say form my experience with datasets of several million
> cases, the 64-bit OS and chip make a big difference in speed. For the
> extra money, it's well worth it.

MK

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Barnett, Adrian (DECD)

Re: Quad Core Processors

In reply to this post by Bob Walker-2

Hi Bob

I’m running Win7 64 bit with 8GB RAM at home and it certainly is much smoother than 32 bit XP with a dual-core chip at work. SPSS is much better in the new version at farming the work out amongst the extra processors and making better use of additional RAM than older versions (although in both departments – RAM and use of multiple processors – it’s still got room for improvement).

32 bit Windows will only make use of about 2.3 GB RAM, whereas 64 bit will use whatever you’ve got (although it is artificially limited to 16 GB in Win7 Home Premium – you need to buy Professional to get more than 16 GB). So if you use big data files, the extra RAM will make a big difference because instead of paging data in and out to the (slow) hard drive, it can keep more of it in memory so the processor nearly always has the data it needs and is not idling waiting for the hard drive to page in some more data. If you have ever sorted a really big file you will appreciate how slow it is when there is insufficient memory – you watch the processor use sitting on 10% while the disk light is flashing so fast it appears to be on permanently.

But this may not be an issue for you if for the life of the computer the work you do involves small files and undemanding tasks like t-tests and crosstabs. You could probably get away with a 32 bit operating system and less than 4 GB of memory.

So if you are buying a new computer and your processing needs are modest, and will remain so for the next 4 years, you can basically buy whatever you like.

Quad core processors are pretty much what you get these days and so you are not going to be paying a huge amount more for one. 64 bit Win 7 does not cost extra, as 64 bit XP did – you get both 32 and 64 bit versions in the box, so cost is not a factor in choosing between 32 and 64 bit Win 7 if you are buying a new computer. A lot of computers come with 3-4 GB when new these days, and going beyond 4 GB does not break the bank if you need more than 4 GB.

So quad core and 64 bit are not really a leap into inaccessible territory. You would not see much cost difference . I would certainly not get under 4GB of memory on a new computer these days as new applications make use of it and your computer will be struggling with the applications it will be running by the time it is in the second half of its useful life if you get less.

Whether the current version of SPSS behaves differently on a 32 versus 64 bit operating system is something the people at SPSS could answer. My guess is that with so much of SPSS now written in Java, it comes down to whether the Java machine itself is 32 or 64 bit. I don’t know what the answer is there. But as I mentioned earlier, my experience is that it’s very much smoother in 64 bit Win 7 with 8GB and 4 processors than under 32 bit XP with 4 GB and 2 processors.

64 bit Windows gives a slight advantage in memory use to a 32 bit application in that it gives it a whole 4 GB of RAM to run in, whilst under a 32 bit OS, it gets about 3.2 – 3.4 GB.

Adrian Barnett

Project Officer

Educational Measurement and Analysis

Data and Educational Measurement

DECS

ph 82261080

From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bob Walker
Sent: Thursday, 7 January 2010 3:14 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Quad Core Processors

Hi all… am in the market for a new machine. Has anyone had any experience running PASW on a quad core processor?

Any insights most appreciated!

TIA,

Regards,

Bob Walker

Surveys & Forecasts, LLC

www.safllc.com

E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.1.0.447)
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Art Kendall

Re: Quad Core Processors

In reply to this post by Bob Walker-2

I have been running version 17 on a quad processor 64-bit machine. It seems much faster but I have done no tests. Things like parallel factor analysis seem very fast, as well as things like merging the annual "census" of public schools in the US for several years.

Historically, the more memory you have, the faster any machine will be.
Also, SPSS does everything in double precision (real*8) which is 64 bits. It seems that doing 64 arithmetic via hardware should be faster than emulating 64 bit arithmetic in software.

SPSS has told me the version 18 is supposed to do a lot more to take advantage of of 64 bit and multiple processors than version 17.

Over the next few weeks, I'll be upgrading my quad 64 bit processor desktop to Windows 7, and will be able to do some speed comparisons to my dual 64 bit processor Ideapad.

I have the impression that Windows 7 does not cost more to install the 64-bit version so there is no reason to use the 32-bit OS.

Art Kendall
Social Research Consultants

Bob Walker wrote:

Hi all… am in the market for a new machine. Has anyone had any experience running PASW on a quad core processor?

PASW is one of my primary apps, so I’m trying to understand: is there is any meaningful difference (better or worse) between dual core vs. quad core machines running a 32-bit OS? Alternatively, would there be any real difference between a quad core machine running a 32-bit vs. 64-bit OS (e.g., Win7), since 32-bit instructions would have to be stepped down to ensure backward compatibility, no?

Any insights most appreciated!

TIA,

Regards,

Bob Walker

Surveys & Forecasts, LLC

www.safllc.com

E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.1.0.447)
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===================== To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD

Art Kendall
Social Research Consultants

Bob Walker-2

Re: Quad Core Processors

Thanks Art, Jon, Adrian, and Michael for your thoughts on quad core processors. FYI, I looked at a few machines, but finally settled on an HP laptop (desktop replacement) with Win7 64 bit OS, quad core processor, and 8GB RAM. I’m anxious to see how PASW performs with this configuration.

Again, many thanks for your comments.

Regards,

Bob Walker

Surveys & Forecasts, LLC

www.safllc.com

From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Art Kendall
Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 7:16 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Quad Core Processors

Hi all… am in the market for a new machine. Has anyone had any experience running PASW on a quad core processor?

Any insights most appreciated!

TIA,

Regards,

Bob Walker

Surveys & Forecasts, LLC

www.safllc.com

E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.1.0.447)
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===================== To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD

Richard Ristow

Re: Quad Core Processors

In reply to this post by Art Kendall

At 07:16 AM 1/7/2010, Art Kendall wrote:

>SPSS does everything in double precision (real*8) which is 64 bits.
>It seems that doing 64 arithmetic via hardware should be faster than
>emulating 64 bit arithmetic in software.

Yes. But that arithmetic has been done in hardware for years now: "On
most pc's still to be found consuming electricity, 64-bit floating
point arithmetic will be done in hardware." -- Jon Peck, Thu, 5 Jun
2003 09:25:37, "Re: Is there a limit of number of variables for
recent versions of SPSS"

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