SV: Old portable file

[Staffan Lindberg]

Yes, I've look at this but the .por file is the only one on the tape. All
the others are system SPSSX-files created in the 80´s on the mainframe (IBM
360/370), operative system MVS, unclear what version. I've already tried in
various ways to read these even with the help on this list but failed.
Thought the .por file would be different. Anyhow, this give us some food for
thought. In 40-50 years will we still be able to read SPSS for Windows files
on old diskettes, tapes, hard drives or USB sticks?

Best and thanks again

Staffan Lindberg
Sweden


-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
Från: David Marso [mailto:[hidden email]]
Skickat: den 23 juni 2011 22:11
Till: Staffan Lindberg
Ämne: Re: Old portable file

Hi Staffan,
You might see if there are other files on the tape which have some ancestral
relationship to the "por" file.
David


On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 4:02 PM, Staffan Lindberg
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thank you ever so much for trying, David. I got the file from an old
> dump on tapes from the mainframe. I'm beginning to suspect it was
> created on an old mainframe and actually is not in a SPSS for Windows
> format .I'm very grateful though that you gave it a try. It's pretty
> obvious, that it has quite a different structure than your example.
>
> Wishing you all the best
>
> Staffan Lindberg
> Sweden
>
> -----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
> Från: David Marso [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Skickat: den 23 juni 2011 20:30
> Till: Staffan Lindberg
> Ämne: Re: Old portable file
>
> Hi Staffan,
>  This does not appear to be an SPSS portable file.  It should be plain
> text and have 80 character record length.  I created a POR file in
> SPSS 11.5 and you can see what it looks like.
> Do you have any record of where the file came from?  It might be a
> standard old system file (.sav) but whatever host system has probably
> been unplugged long ago -It looks binary rather than text-.
> Sorry I could not be of further assistance.
> David
>
> P.S.
> You can see the rather obvious mapping logic within this simple file.
> The first part is a system specific header terminated by SPSSPORTA8/
> and the creation date... then follows the data dictionary and then the

data.

>
> data list free / a b c (3f1) alpha (a6).
> begin data
> 1 2 3 case1
> 4 5 6 case2
> 7 8 9 case3
> 2 3 4 case4
> 5 2 0 case5
> 6 3 5 case6
> end data.
> value labels
>      a b c
>      1 "one" 2 "two" 3 "three" 4 "four" 5 "five" 6 "six" 7 "seven" 8
> "eight" 9 "missing".
> missing values all (9).
> variable labels
>  a "Variable a"
>  b "Variable b"
>  c "Variable c".
> EXPORT OUTFILE "C:\Temp\SPSSPortableTest2.por" .
>
> ----------------
> ÁâÃÉÉ@â×ââ@×ÖÙã@ÆÉÓÅ@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ASCII SPSS PORT FILE
> 00000-0000-0000-0000--------------------!3#))0303300/240&),%0000000000
> 000000
> 0000
> 0200002'220'&)3000#000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
> 000000
> 0000
> 0000000000000000000000000123456789ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghij
> klmnop
> qrst
> uvwxyz
> .<(+0&[]!$*);^-/|,%_>?`:#@'="000000~000000000000000000000{}\0000000000
> 000
> 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000SPSSPORTA8/201
> 106236
> /141
> 755112/SPSS for Microsoft Windows
> Relea44/5B/70/1/A5/1/0/5/1/0/CA/Variable
> a70/1 /B5/1/0/5/1/0/CA/Variable b70/1/C5/1/0/5/1/0/CA/Variable
> c76/5/ALPHA1/6/0/1/6/0/ C1/
> D3/1/A1/B1/C9/1/3/one2/3/two3/5/three4/4/four5/4/five6/3/six7/5/seven8
> /5/eig
> ht9/7/missingF1/2/3/5/case14/5/6/5/case27/8/9/5/case32/3/4/5/case45/2/
> 0/5/ca
> se56
> /3/5/5/case6ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
> ZZZZZZ
> ZZZZ
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 1:06 PM, Staffan Lindberg
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi David!
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you ever so much for trying. Enclose the file.
>>
>>
>>
>> best
>>
>>
>>
>> Staffan Lindberg
>>
>> Sweden
>
>

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[David Marso]

"Anyhow, this give us some food for
thought. In 40-50 years will we still be able to read SPSS for Windows files
on old diskettes, tapes, hard drives or USB sticks? "

Great question!  In 40-50 years?
Even now, pretty much forget about 5.25" disks.  I have a MacBookPro and forget about 3.5" disks there.
Can you even find a recent PC which has a 3.5" drive slot.
I have a bunch of old hard drives previously attached to WinNT and Win98 boxes with SPSS code, Data, Photos etc which I will need to build an enclosure, rig it up and do a dump (one at a time).
These are HUGE drives (at the time-1997-2000 -60 to 100G-).
I currently have something like 9 external drives (1x120G, 2x250G, 4x500G, 1x1TB) and don't seem to have any space left (I do a lot of video and image processing and am something of a packrat).
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=TrancePlant777#grid/uploads
Each project takes about 40-80G and I never know when I might want to do a remix...
So, will AVI, TIF, JPG, PNG etc files be readable in 50 years?
Will everything be on the cloud?  Will quantum computing take over?
Will MASSIVE  SSD tech prevail?
Will there be even an internet or will it all be telepathic networking through some sort of alien light technology.
Will SPSS exist as an application in 50 years or will it be assimilated into some nefarious IBM ubertech tied into CCTV and controlling/analyzing the global telepathic alien light network...
Will PC's exist?, Macs? Humans?, The planet????

[David Marso]

Hi Staffan,
Hard to know what to do.
1.  Find a site with SPSS installed on an MVS system (it would
probably be SPSS 4.1 and should be able to read SPSS-X files ( ver 2
or 3.1 not sure because I started working at SPSS in late 1990 and it
was transitioning to 4.0 then -I left in 2001 and I believe MVS was
still at 4.1.1 I don't think it went to 6.0 like many Unix systems and
a few other platforms).
2.  Locate an onsite resource to whom you can send the tape , write
JCL to extract the contents and write a CD or DVD.  Of course you will
need them to create an SPSS job for each system file to EXPORT
portable files.
Perhaps someone from SPSS/IBM can facilitate the locating of a site
with an ancient BIG IRON license.
HTH, David

On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 5:57 PM, Staffan Lindberg
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Yes, I've look at this but the .por file is the only one on the tape. All
> the others are system SPSSX-files created in the 80´s on the mainframe (IBM
> 360/370), operative system MVS, unclear what version. I've already tried in
> various ways to read these even with the help on this list but failed.
> Thought the .por file would be different. Anyhow, this give us some food for
> thought. In 40-50 years will we still be able to read SPSS for Windows files
> on old diskettes, tapes, hard drives or USB sticks?
>
> Best and thanks again
>
> Staffan Lindberg
> Sweden
>
>
> -----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
> Från: David Marso [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Skickat: den 23 juni 2011 22:11
> Till: Staffan Lindberg
> Ämne: Re: Old portable file
>
> Hi Staffan,
> You might see if there are other files on the tape which have some ancestral
> relationship to the "por" file.
> David
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 4:02 PM, Staffan Lindberg
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Thank you ever so much for trying, David. I got the file from an old
>> dump on tapes from the mainframe. I'm beginning to suspect it was
>> created on an old mainframe and actually is not in a SPSS for Windows
>> format .I'm very grateful though that you gave it a try. It's pretty
>> obvious, that it has quite a different structure than your example.
>>
>> Wishing you all the best
>>
>> Staffan Lindberg
>> Sweden
>>
>> -----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
>> Från: David Marso [mailto:[hidden email]]
>> Skickat: den 23 juni 2011 20:30
>> Till: Staffan Lindberg
>> Ämne: Re: Old portable file
>>
>> Hi Staffan,
>>  This does not appear to be an SPSS portable file.  It should be plain
>> text and have 80 character record length.  I created a POR file in
>> SPSS 11.5 and you can see what it looks like.
>> Do you have any record of where the file came from?  It might be a
>> standard old system file (.sav) but whatever host system has probably
>> been unplugged long ago -It looks binary rather than text-.
>> Sorry I could not be of further assistance.
>> David
>>
>> P.S.
>> You can see the rather obvious mapping logic within this simple file.
>> The first part is a system specific header terminated by SPSSPORTA8/
>> and the creation date... then follows the data dictionary and then the
> data.
>>
>> data list free / a b c (3f1) alpha (a6).
>> begin data
>> 1 2 3 case1
>> 4 5 6 case2
>> 7 8 9 case3
>> 2 3 4 case4
>> 5 2 0 case5
>> 6 3 5 case6
>> end data.
>> value labels
>>      a b c
>>      1 "one" 2 "two" 3 "three" 4 "four" 5 "five" 6 "six" 7 "seven" 8
>> "eight" 9 "missing".
>> missing values all (9).
>> variable labels
>>  a "Variable a"
>>  b "Variable b"
>>  c "Variable c".
>> EXPORT OUTFILE "C:\Temp\SPSSPortableTest2.por" .
>>
>> ----------------
>> ÁâÃÉÉ@â×ââ@×ÖÙã@ÆÉÓÅ@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ASCII SPSS PORT FILE
>> 00000-0000-0000-0000--------------------!3#))0303300/240&),%0000000000
>> 000000
>> 0000
>> 0200002'220'&)3000#000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
>> 000000
>> 0000
>> 0000000000000000000000000123456789ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghij
>> klmnop
>> qrst
>> uvwxyz
>> .<(+0&[]!$*);^-/|,%_>?`:#@'="000000~000000000000000000000{}\0000000000
>> 000
>> 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000SPSSPORTA8/201
>> 106236
>> /141
>> 755112/SPSS for Microsoft Windows
>> Relea44/5B/70/1/A5/1/0/5/1/0/CA/Variable
>> a70/1 /B5/1/0/5/1/0/CA/Variable b70/1/C5/1/0/5/1/0/CA/Variable
>> c76/5/ALPHA1/6/0/1/6/0/ C1/
>> D3/1/A1/B1/C9/1/3/one2/3/two3/5/three4/4/four5/4/five6/3/six7/5/seven8
>> /5/eig
>> ht9/7/missingF1/2/3/5/case14/5/6/5/case27/8/9/5/case32/3/4/5/case45/2/
>> 0/5/ca
>> se56
>> /3/5/5/case6ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
>> ZZZZZZ
>> ZZZZ
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 1:06 PM, Staffan Lindberg
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Hi David!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you ever so much for trying. Enclose the file.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> best
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Staffan Lindberg
>>>
>>> Sweden
>>
>>
>
>

=====================
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[hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the
command. To leave the list, send the command
SIGNOFF SPSSX-L
For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command
INFO REFCARD

[John F Hall]

Staffan posted a related problem on 11  May 2010 [Reading old SPSS-X files
from tapes into SPSS for Windows].  I had a similar problem with survey data
deposited at Essex when they were no longer able to read mag tapes from the
Dec 10/20 and Vax at PNL.  I found a place in Aylesbury (UK) which offered
to read/transcribe the tapes: no guarantee that SPSS 11 (as was) would be
able to read the  .por or .sys files.

Essex had my tapes for almost three years and then returned them to me as
they no longer had a mainframe version of SPSS, but had at least copied them
on to two CDs (unbelievable technological development)  I managed to
retrieve some of the files by deleting the extension numbers and/or changing
the file extensions, but some were irretrievably lost.  So much for
archiving.  PNL dumped everything before 1986 as well, including some really
interesting student surveys done to professional standards under my
supervision: so much for calling itself an academic institution!

I suggested he contact Altirium (http://www.altirium.com/ ) to see if they
can help, but it might cost a bit.  Mark Sear ([hidden email] ) said he
would get in touch with Staffan; did he?


John F Hall

[hidden email]
www.surveyresearch.weebly.com






-----Original Message-----
From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
David Marso
Sent: 24 June 2011 02:52
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Old portable file

Hi Staffan,
Hard to know what to do.
1.  Find a site with SPSS installed on an MVS system (it would
probably be SPSS 4.1 and should be able to read SPSS-X files ( ver 2
or 3.1 not sure because I started working at SPSS in late 1990 and it
was transitioning to 4.0 then -I left in 2001 and I believe MVS was
still at 4.1.1 I don't think it went to 6.0 like many Unix systems and
a few other platforms).
2.  Locate an onsite resource to whom you can send the tape , write
JCL to extract the contents and write a CD or DVD.  Of course you will
need them to create an SPSS job for each system file to EXPORT
portable files.
Perhaps someone from SPSS/IBM can facilitate the locating of a site
with an ancient BIG IRON license.
HTH, David

On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 5:57 PM, Staffan Lindberg
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Yes, I've look at this but the .por file is the only one on the tape. All
> the others are system SPSSX-files created in the 80´s on the mainframe
(IBM
> 360/370), operative system MVS, unclear what version. I've already tried
in
> various ways to read these even with the help on this list but failed.
> Thought the .por file would be different. Anyhow, this give us some food
for
> thought. In 40-50 years will we still be able to read SPSS for Windows
files

> on old diskettes, tapes, hard drives or USB sticks?
>
> Best and thanks again
>
> Staffan Lindberg
> Sweden
>
>
> -----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
> Från: David Marso [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Skickat: den 23 juni 2011 22:11
> Till: Staffan Lindberg
> Ämne: Re: Old portable file
>
> Hi Staffan,
> You might see if there are other files on the tape which have some

ancestral

> relationship to the "por" file.
> David
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 4:02 PM, Staffan Lindberg
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Thank you ever so much for trying, David. I got the file from an old
>> dump on tapes from the mainframe. I'm beginning to suspect it was
>> created on an old mainframe and actually is not in a SPSS for Windows
>> format .I'm very grateful though that you gave it a try. It's pretty
>> obvious, that it has quite a different structure than your example.
>>
>> Wishing you all the best
>>
>> Staffan Lindberg
>> Sweden
>>
>> -----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
>> Från: David Marso [mailto:[hidden email]]
>> Skickat: den 23 juni 2011 20:30
>> Till: Staffan Lindberg
>> Ämne: Re: Old portable file
>>
>> Hi Staffan,
>>  This does not appear to be an SPSS portable file.  It should be plain
>> text and have 80 character record length.  I created a POR file in
>> SPSS 11.5 and you can see what it looks like.
>> Do you have any record of where the file came from?  It might be a
>> standard old system file (.sav) but whatever host system has probably
>> been unplugged long ago -It looks binary rather than text-.
>> Sorry I could not be of further assistance.
>> David
>>
>> P.S.
>> You can see the rather obvious mapping logic within this simple file.
>> The first part is a system specific header terminated by SPSSPORTA8/
>> and the creation date... then follows the data dictionary and then the
> data.
>>
>> data list free / a b c (3f1) alpha (a6).
>> begin data
>> 1 2 3 case1
>> 4 5 6 case2
>> 7 8 9 case3
>> 2 3 4 case4
>> 5 2 0 case5
>> 6 3 5 case6
>> end data.
>> value labels
>>      a b c
>>      1 "one" 2 "two" 3 "three" 4 "four" 5 "five" 6 "six" 7 "seven" 8
>> "eight" 9 "missing".
>> missing values all (9).
>> variable labels
>>  a "Variable a"
>>  b "Variable b"
>>  c "Variable c".
>> EXPORT OUTFILE "C:\Temp\SPSSPortableTest2.por" .
>>
>> ----------------
>> ÁâÃÉÉ@â×ââ@×ÖÙã@ÆÉÓÅ@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ASCII SPSS PORT FILE
>> 00000-0000-0000-0000--------------------!3#))0303300/240&),%0000000000
>> 000000
>> 0000
>> 0200002'220'&)3000#000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
>> 000000
>> 0000
>> 0000000000000000000000000123456789ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghij
>> klmnop
>> qrst
>> uvwxyz
>> .<(+0&[]!$*);^-/|,%_>?`:#@'="000000~000000000000000000000{}\0000000000
>> 000
>> 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000SPSSPORTA8/201
>> 106236
>> /141
>> 755112/SPSS for Microsoft Windows
>> Relea44/5B/70/1/A5/1/0/5/1/0/CA/Variable
>> a70/1 /B5/1/0/5/1/0/CA/Variable b70/1/C5/1/0/5/1/0/CA/Variable
>> c76/5/ALPHA1/6/0/1/6/0/ C1/
>> D3/1/A1/B1/C9/1/3/one2/3/two3/5/three4/4/four5/4/five6/3/six7/5/seven8
>> /5/eig
>> ht9/7/missingF1/2/3/5/case14/5/6/5/case27/8/9/5/case32/3/4/5/case45/2/
>> 0/5/ca
>> se56
>> /3/5/5/case6ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
>> ZZZZZZ
>> ZZZZ
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 1:06 PM, Staffan Lindberg
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Hi David!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you ever so much for trying. Enclose the file.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> best
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Staffan Lindberg
>>>
>>> Sweden
>>
>>
>
>

=====================
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[hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the
command. To leave the list, send the command
SIGNOFF SPSSX-L
For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command
INFO REFCARD

=====================
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[hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the
command. To leave the list, send the command
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For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command
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[David Marso]

"I suggested he contact Altirium (http://www.altirium.com/ ) to see if they
can help, but it might cost a bit.  Mark Sear ([hidden email] ) said he
would get in touch with Staffan; did he? "

I cannot see the relevance of Altirium to this at all.  
They do data recovery and I doubt very much that they have a MVS system with SPSS installed!!!
----
Fundamentally, Staffan needs to
1. Locate a site with IBM Mainframe running MVS and an SPSS license (no longer supported product).
2. Identify a resource he can trust to receive a Tape or whatever other media (email?) and run some code to extract and convert the existing SPSS system files to Portable files and ship/email them back to him.
Only thing I can think of is some University somewhere here or there.
OTOH finding a good technical resource WRT SPSS on Big Iron (JCL, IO etc... I used to know that shit about 20+ years ago)  might not be so easy.
Can we see a show of hands?????