Login  Register

Re: test on means for subgroups vs. total

Posted by Art Kendall on Dec 04, 2010; 1:19pm
URL: http://spssx-discussion.165.s1.nabble.com/test-on-means-for-subgroups-vs-total-tp3278152p3292124.html

YMMV but in my experience, when people say they want to "test one group against the total" they mean several things.

<soapbox> It is important to tease out the precise question. <\soapbox>

Sometimes they mean they want something like a standard score type idea, i.e., how extreme is this subpop in the whole pop of which it is a part. [mean vs grand mean] This can be problematical when a large portion of the cases are on both sides of the comparison. [IQ this class vs norms.]
Sometimes they mean that they want to compare this subpop to all of the other members of the pop without regard to which subpop they in (1 residual subpop). [mean a  vs mean of all residual cases (cases not a)] This can compare apples to all other fruit.
Sometimes they mean that they want to compare this subpop to each of the other subpops. [mean a vs mean b, mean a vs mean c, etc, but not b vs c etc.]
Sometimes they mean that they want to compare each pair of subpops.[All pairs of means]
Sometimes when the subpops are ordered they want to compare ordered subpops to the lowest value for any subpop. (e.g., doses vs zero dose).

aside: Does anyone know of a site that succinctly lays out in one place 1) statements like those above 2) specifies the names for  kinds of contrasts 3) gives examples and 4) gives some visualizations?

Art Kendall
Social Research Consultants

On 12/3/2010 10:21 PM, R B wrote:
I didn't respond to this post initially because the question pertained
to excel. But, since someone responded, I would like to point out that
it is possible to compare the mean of one group against the grand
mean. I recently showed how to do this in SPSS via the MIXED procedure
employing the TEST subcommand. Really, there are several procedures in
SPSS that could be used to carry out this type of contrast.

Ryan

On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 4:26 PM, Richard Ristow [hidden email] wrote:
At 04:45 AM 11/24/2010, Alexandra Chirilov wrote:

Could you help me with an excel which perform test on means for
subgroups vs. total?
None of the standard tests compare subgroups with the total; they
compare non-overlapping subgroups with each other.

The general term for comparing subgroup means is 'analysis of
variance' ('ANOVA'). There are many variations on ANOVA, but the
place to start is with a simple one-way ANOVA, unless there's reason
in your study to do otherwise. (A still better place to start is to
get advice from someone who knows the statistical methods and the
details of your study, who can tell what methods would be appropriate.)

If you want to do this in Excel, the main advice you'll get here is,
don't. Lots of people do statistical analysis in Excel, but the
general professional opinion is that Excel isn't very good for that,
and there are many risks in using it.

If you have SPSS, and can load your data into SPSS, from the menus try

Analyze > Compare Means > One-Way ANOVA

You *must* have someone statistically knowledgeable help you to
understand the results. You can also post SPSS and statistical
questions here, though there's no substitute for someone you can talk
with  face to face.

-Best of luck,
 Richard Ristow

=====================
To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to
[hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the
command. To leave the list, send the command
SIGNOFF SPSSX-L
For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command
INFO REFCARD

=====================
To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to
[hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the
command. To leave the list, send the command
SIGNOFF SPSSX-L
For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command
INFO REFCARD

===================== To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD
Art Kendall
Social Research Consultants