Posted by
msherman on
Apr 24, 2019; 1:10pm
URL: http://spssx-discussion.165.s1.nabble.com/Linear-Mixed-Model-in-SPSS-Guidance-tp5737698p5737724.html
Kyllie: Thanks for the references. I would love to get back to the editor and argue that the results will not be very different if I used mixed modeling vs repeated measures anova. Unfortunately the PI wants to keep the editor happy. martin
-----Original Message-----
From: SPSSX(r) Discussion <
[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Kylie Lange
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2019 7:37 PM
To:
[hidden email]
Subject: Re: Linear Mixed Model in SPSS Guidance
Hi Martin,
Here are some further references that you may find helpful. Both provide worked examples in SPSS (and other software in the case of the West book):
Ronald H Heck, Scott L Thomas & Lynn N Tabata. Multilevel and longitudinal modeling with IBM SPSS. 2014 (2nd Ed).
Brady T West, Kathleen B Welch & Andrzej T Galecki. Linear mixed models: A practical guide using statistical software. 2007. (See
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bwest/almmussp.html for SPSS syntax for each chapter).
Note that while your design does not involve a hierarchical structure there can be other advantages to using a mixed effects model, such as more flexible modelling of the errors. For example you could fit separate residual variances per group, unlike the ANOVA model.
Kylie.
-----Original Message-----
From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:
[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ryan Black
Sent: Wednesday, 24 April 2019 7:51 AM
To:
[hidden email]
Subject: Re: Linear Mixed Model in SPSS Guidance
It isn’t clear to me why the reviewer feels so strongly about an LMM in this particular circumstance.
I would expect the fixed effects results from a repeated measures ANOVA and LMM using data from a fully balanced 2 group-by-2 time point design [with no missing data] to be identical.
> On Apr 23, 2019, at 4:32 PM, Maguin, Eugene <
[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I agree. Multilevel is overkill but then there is this sentence in Martin's reply to me, " The editor at the International Journal of Eating Disorders stated that the journal does not approve of repeated measures ANOVA and requires a Hierarchical Linear Modeling or Mixed Linear Modeling or MANOVA (which is least preferred)."
> Gene Maguin
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SPSSX(r) Discussion <
[hidden email]> On Behalf Of
> Bruce Weaver
> Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2019 5:23 PM
> To:
[hidden email]
> Subject: Re: Linear Mixed Model in SPSS Guidance
>
> I agree with David. Multilevel modeling would seem like overkill with only 2 repeated measures. Here's a short BMJ Statistics Note you may find helpful, Martin.
>
>
https://www.bmj.com/content/323/7321/1123.full>
> Cheers,
> Bruce
>
>
> David Greenberg wrote
>> No need for multilevel modeling here. Your data do not violate the
>> assumption of independence of observations. David Greenberg
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 9:00 AM Martin Sherman <
>
>> MSherman@
>
>> > wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear List: I am working on pretest/post-test study with two
>>> between group factors, Treatment (Therapy A vs. Therapy B) and Age (younger vs.
>>> Older) on various outcome variables (all continuous). I originally
>>> considered doing a repeated measures analysis but after reading up
>>> on the pros and cons of such an analysis I decided that a linear
>>> mixed model would be more appropriate given the correlation between
>>> the pre-test scores and the post-test scores. To further my
>>> understanding I reviewed the text by Verbeke and Molenberghs (Linear
>>> Mixed Models for Longitudinal Data). Getting through the text proved
>>> to be a challenge (many many equations beyond my pay grade). So I
>>> starting looking for some dummy downed explanations on how to set up
>>> my statistical model. So far that have not generated any comparable
>>> examples of my design (2 x 2 x (2)). I am hoping there are some
>>> folks on the listserve that might be able to point me in some
>>> directions that will prove to be beneficial. I have googled but I
>>> have not found any helpful tutorials. Per chance if anyone has a good tutorial for my design I would appreciate hearing from you.
>>> Thanks, martin sherman
>>>
>>> Martin F. Sherman, Ph.D.
>>> Professor of Psychology
>>> Loyola University Maryland
>>> 4501 North Charles Street
>>> 222 B Beatty Hall
>>> Baltimore, MD 21210
>>> ===================== To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a
>>> message to
>
>> LISTSERV@.UGA
>
>> (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the
>> list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to
>> manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD
>>
>> =====================
>> To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to
>
>> LISTSERV@.UGA
>
>> (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the
>> list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to
>> manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD
>
>
>
>
>
> -----
> --
> Bruce Weaver
>
[hidden email]
>
http://sites.google.com/a/lakeheadu.ca/bweaver/>
> "When all else fails, RTFM."
>
> NOTE: My Hotmail account is not monitored regularly.
> To send me an e-mail, please use the address shown above.
>
> --
> Sent from:
http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/>
> =====================
> To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to
>
[hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except
> the command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a
> list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO
> REFCARD
>
> =====================
> To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to
>
[hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except
> the command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a
> list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO
> REFCARD
=====================
To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to
[hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD
=====================
To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to
[hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD
=====================
To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to
[hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the
command. To leave the list, send the command
SIGNOFF SPSSX-L
For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command
INFO REFCARD