Hi all
I am doing a Cox-Regression with data from patients. The time frame starts when a patient is delivered to the hospital. A patient stays there normally for several days and either survives or dies. Surviving patients are followed then for several yeas in the post-hospital time. One of my covariates (dichotomous) describes whether the patient had a shock when he was delivered to the hospital. This variable is violating the assumption of proportional hazard. I therefore defined a time-dependent covariate as a function of the time surviving. TIME PROGRAM. COMPUTE T_COV_shock = T_ * shock_presentation . COXREG time /STATUS=Status(1) /METHOD=ENTER shock_presentation T_COV_shock /CRITERIA=PIN(.05) POUT(.10) ITERATE(20) . I get the following results: B sig Exp(B) shock_presentation 2.540 < 0.001 12.69 T_COV_shock -0.48 < 0.001 0.619 How would I describe those results? I see that the risk for dying is much higher for patients with a shock at the hospital presentation (shock_presentation). But how would I explain the time dependent covariate for the shock (T_COV_shock)? Thanks, Christian ******************************* la volta statistics Christian Schmidhauser, Dr.phil.II Weinbergstrasse 108 Ch-8006 Zürich Tel: +41 (043) 233 98 01 Fax: +41 (043) 233 98 02 mailto:[hidden email] |
Hi Christian
lvs> One of my covariates (dichotomous) describes whether the patient had a shock lvs> when he was delivered to the hospital. This variable is violating the lvs> assumption of proportional hazard. lvs> I therefore defined a time-dependent covariate as a function of the time lvs> surviving. lvs> TIME PROGRAM. lvs> COMPUTE T_COV_shock = T_ * shock_presentation . lvs> COXREG lvs> time /STATUS=Status(1) lvs> /METHOD=ENTER shock_presentation T_COV_shock lvs> /CRITERIA=PIN(.05) POUT(.10) ITERATE(20) . lvs> I get the following results: lvs> B sig Exp(B) lvs> shock_presentation 2.540 < 0.001 12.69 lvs> T_COV_shock -0.48 < 0.001 0.619 lvs> How would I describe those results? lvs> I see that the risk for dying is much lvs> higher for patients with a shock at the hospital presentation lvs> (shock_presentation). But how would I explain the time dependent covariate lvs> for the shock (T_COV_shock)? The T_COV_ is in fact an interaction term. This means that the effect of shock presentation on survival depends on time, and, therefore, there is no simple answer to the question "What effect has shock on patients' survival?" The high HR (exp(b)) you observe is valid when time EQ 0 (shortly after shock, the death risk is very high). The negative slope for T_COV_ indicates that the risk decreases as time goes on, that is, the negative effect of shock on survival is diluted with time. Plot estimated shock HR against time (I use Excel for that, but SPSS could be used too, I believe) as a form of explaining what's going on. Ask me again (here, at the list) if you need help for plotting the interaction (simply COMPUTE estHR=EXP(2.54-0.48*time, and plot estHR against time). HTH -- Regards, Dr. Marta García-Granero,PhD mailto:[hidden email] Statistician --- "It is unwise to use a statistical procedure whose use one does not understand. SPSS syntax guide cannot supply this knowledge, and it is certainly no substitute for the basic understanding of statistics and statistical thinking that is essential for the wise choice of methods and the correct interpretation of their results". (Adapted from WinPepi manual - I'm sure Joe Abrahmson will not mind) |
In reply to this post by la volta statistics
Before reading Marta's response I had thought os using the occurrence of shock as a stratification variable. This generates a different baseline survival curve for patients with and without shock. This may solve the problem in a simpler manner, if I am not much mistaken.
Hector ----- Mensaje original ----- De: Marta García-Granero <[hidden email]> Fecha: Jueves, Septiembre 7, 2006 7:24 pm Asunto: Re: Cox-Regression with time-dependent covariate > Hi Christian > > lvs> One of my covariates (dichotomous) describes whether the > patient had a shock > lvs> when he was delivered to the hospital. This variable is > violating the > lvs> assumption of proportional hazard. > lvs> I therefore defined a time-dependent covariate as a function > of the time > lvs> surviving. > > lvs> TIME PROGRAM. > lvs> COMPUTE T_COV_shock = T_ * shock_presentation . > lvs> COXREG > lvs> time /STATUS=Status(1) > lvs> /METHOD=ENTER shock_presentation T_COV_shock > lvs> /CRITERIA=PIN(.05) POUT(.10) ITERATE(20) . > > > lvs> I get the following results: > > lvs> B sig Exp(B) > lvs> shock_presentation 2.540 < 0.001 12.69 > lvs> T_COV_shock -0.48 < 0.001 0.619 > > lvs> How would I describe those results? > > lvs> I see that the risk for dying is much > lvs> higher for patients with a shock at the hospital presentation > lvs> (shock_presentation). But how would I explain the time > dependent covariate > lvs> for the shock (T_COV_shock)? > > The T_COV_ is in fact an interaction term. This means that the effect > of shock presentation on survival depends on time, and, therefore, > there is no simple answer to the question "What effect has shock on > patients' survival?" The high HR (exp(b)) you observe is valid when > time EQ 0 (shortly after shock, the death risk is very high). The > negative slope for T_COV_ indicates that the risk decreases as time > goes on, that is, the negative effect of shock on survival is diluted > with time. > > Plot estimated shock HR against time (I use Excel for that, but SPSS > could be used too, I believe) as a form of explaining what's going on. > Ask me again (here, at the list) if you need help for plotting the > interaction (simply COMPUTE estHR=EXP(2.54-0.48*time, and plot estHR > against time). > > HTH > > -- > Regards, > Dr. Marta García-Granero,PhD [hidden email] > Statistician > > --- > "It is unwise to use a statistical procedure whose use one does > not understand. SPSS syntax guide cannot supply this knowledge, > and it > is certainly no substitute for the basic understanding of statistics > and statistical thinking that is essential for the wise choice of > methods and the correct interpretation of their results". > > (Adapted from WinPepi manual - I'm sure Joe Abrahmson will not mind) > |
Hi Hector
HM> Before reading Marta's response I had thought os using the HM> occurrence of shock as a stratification variable. This generates a HM> different baseline survival curve for patients with and without HM> shock. This may solve the problem in a simpler manner, if I am not HM> much mistaken. Your idea doesn't answer Christian's question: how to interpret a significant T_COV_. The fact that the effect of shock on survival depends on time can't be ignored by stratifying by shock. It's the baseline survival curve for shock=yes that is causing the problem. An interaction can't be ignored, it has to be explained, since it adds an important information from a clinical point of view. Warmest regards, Marta |
In reply to this post by la volta statistics
I thought, Marta, that it is not exactly an interaction with time but two different situations, two different kinds of events. One is arriving at the hospital with the disease plus the shock, the other is arriving with the disease and no shock, and each has completely different survival curves. The baseline for patients with shocks shows death occurring earlier, of course, because they are in more danger of dying shortly after arrival, so fewer cases survive that early phase compared to no-shock cases, but the difference will show in the baseline curves, one of them dropping sharply after arrival and the other more gently and slowly.
Perhaps I should have been more radical: not two strata in the same Cox regression, but two Cox regressions altogether. But you are my favourite mathematical statistician, so I believe you if you say this line of reasoning is wrong. Hector. ----- Mensaje original ----- De: Marta García-Granero <[hidden email]> Fecha: Viernes, Septiembre 8, 2006 10:23 am Asunto: Re: Cox-Regression with time-dependent covariate > Hi Hector > > HM> Before reading Marta's response I had thought os using the > HM> occurrence of shock as a stratification variable. This > generates a > HM> different baseline survival curve for patients with and without > HM> shock. This may solve the problem in a simpler manner, if I am not > HM> much mistaken. > > Your idea doesn't answer Christian's question: how to interpret a > significant T_COV_. The fact that the effect of shock on survival > depends on time can't be ignored by stratifying by shock. It's the > baseline survival curve for shock=yes that is causing the problem. An > interaction can't be ignored, it has to be explained, since it > adds an > important information from a clinical point of view. > > Warmest regards, > Marta > |
Hi Hector
I have been quite busy, sorry for the delay in answering ( a statistics course on survival analysis at the university for researchers, BTW). I'm sending you a PDF file with a research paper where they discuss the lack of hazard ratio proportionality in terms of an interaction with time (patients and methods section). HM> I thought, Marta, that it is not exactly an interaction with HM> time It IS an interaction term with time, believe me (since I can have some trouble trying to translate all this to English, perhaps I can write to you privately in our common language and then you translate it to the whole list - you are much better than I writing in English). HM> but two different situations, two different kinds of events. HM> One is arriving at the hospital with the disease plus the shock, HM> the other is arriving with the disease and no shock, and each has HM> completely different survival curves. Yes they are different, that's why shock is significant. The fact that the T_COV_ is also significant say that the Hazard Ratio (simplifying it a bit, the ratio of the slopes of both survival curves) changes with time, it is not constant (as Cox regression assumes). HM> The baseline for patients HM> with shocks shows death occurring earlier, of course, because they HM> are in more danger of dying shortly after arrival, so fewer cases HM> survive that early phase compared to no-shock cases, but the HM> difference will show in the baseline curves, one of them dropping HM> sharply after arrival and the other more gently and slowly. The interaction with time comes from the fact that the baseline curve for shock=yes will drop sharply only at first, and afterwards the drop will become gentler, as you put it. It is the fact that the ratio of the slopes is not constant over time that provokes the failure of the proportional hazards assumption. HM> Perhaps I should have been more radical: not two strata in HM> the same Cox regression, but two Cox regressions altogether. Definitely not if the purpose of the model is explaining the effect of shock on survival, you can't compare what you split in separate models. What you must do is stratify by time (separate your model in short, medium and long term effect of the variable on survival, see the paper I'll be sending to you in another message). HM> But you are my favourite mathematical statistician, so I HM> believe you if you say this line of reasoning is wrong. I'm flattered! But I like being contested now and then. -- Regards, Dr. Marta García-Granero,PhD mailto:[hidden email] Statistician --- "It is unwise to use a statistical procedure whose use one does not understand. SPSS syntax guide cannot supply this knowledge, and it is certainly no substitute for the basic understanding of statistics and statistical thinking that is essential for the wise choice of methods and the correct interpretation of their results". (Adapted from WinPepi manual - I'm sure Joe Abrahmson will not mind) |
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