Getting text output from GenlinMixed

[JeremyT]

I am using Genlinmixed in V20 and the output is in Model Viewer format. When I export, or copy and paste, tables they are only available as images in the rather ghastly colour scheme of the Model Viewer. Is there any way can get the output tables as nice and simple text?

[David Marso]

My only comment regarding the output viewer is WTF were they thinking and when do they plan to fix this hideous monstrosity.  Whoever designed this crap should be forced to take calls in tech support for 5 hours each week until they get fired for utter incompetency.  How many hours of design by committee were wasted in stupid feature meetings?  Who actually signed off of this?

JeremyT wrote

I am using Genlinmixed in V20 and the output is in Model Viewer format.  When I export, or copy and paste, tables they are only available as images in the rather ghastly colour scheme of the Model Viewer. Is there any way can get the output tables as nice and simple text?

[Albert-Jan Roskam]

From: JeremyT <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Friday, September 7, 2012 11:22 AM
Subject: [SPSSX-L] Getting text output from GenlinMixed

>
>I am using Genlinmixed in V20 and the output is in Model Viewer format. When I export, or copy and paste, tables they are only available as images in the rather ghastly colour scheme of the Model Viewer. Is there any way can get the output tables as nice and simple text?
>

Hi, check the OUTPUT EXPORT command. It has many, many options, including export to MS Word .doc

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[Bruce Weaver]

Fortunately, I've managed to avoid Model Viewer output for the most part (I've not yet had very much use for the newer procedures that generate such output).  Can you send the desired tables to a new data set via OMS?  You could then generate your own tables via SUMMARIZE or REPORT.

HTH.

JeremyT wrote

I am using Genlinmixed in V20 and the output is in Model Viewer format.  When I export, or copy and paste, tables they are only available as images in the rather ghastly colour scheme of the Model Viewer. Is there any way can get the output tables as nice and simple text?

[Jon K Peck]

Traditional pivot table output from this procedure is an option new in Statistics 21.  In earlier versions you can export to Word or other formats to get expanded output.  Using File > Properties in the MV, set the option to print all views first.

Note also that when  you are in the MV, the dropdowns on its bar at the bottom can be used to change the contents of the various views.

I am no fan of the MV, but it does allow you to explore the procedure output more interactively than the traditional pivot tables.

HTH,

Jon Peck (no "h") aka Kim
Senior Software Engineer, IBM
[hidden email]
new phone: [phone]




From:        JeremyT <[hidden email]>
To:        [hidden email]
Date:        09/07/2012 03:26 AM
Subject:        [SPSSX-L] Getting text output from GenlinMixed
Sent by:        "SPSSX(r) Discussion" <[hidden email]>

---

I am using Genlinmixed in V20 and the output is in Model Viewer format. When I export, or copy and paste, tables they are only available as images in the rather ghastly colour scheme of the Model Viewer. Is there any way can get the output tables as nice and simple text?

---

View this message in context: Getting text output from GenlinMixed
Sent from the SPSSX Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

[JeremyT]

Thanks!

I have just upgraded to V21.
When I export or copy from the model viewer (the default output mode for GenLinMixed) all of the objects (tables and plots) are imported/pasted as images (paste special doesn't help).  Thus the ghastly tables are not editable except as pictures. Am I missing a something?  I have been through all the options in export and in the viewer.
So, switching to pivot table output under Options as suggested and running the same analysis via syntax on the same data then the Statistics engine crashes:“Unrecoverable application error in the Statistics Processor”
So I am no further forward with this.

[David Marso]

"all of the objects (tables and plots) are imported/pasted as images "
WOW!  I just opened 20 and attempted to export as text.  Opened the file and it
Chart title : Model Viewer
Chart file exported to : "C:\Users\David Marso\Desktop\SPSSOutJunk1.png"
Well, I have a sense of humor but that is simply NOT funny in the least.  It is pathetic, inexcusable and simply beyond my comprehension!

It seems obvious that someone (actually a large team in all likelihood) in charge at SPSS forgot the afterthought of "use case scenarios" in favor of an obsession with bling and "what does a manager want -er play with pretty pictures and diddle knobs-" rather than asking for even a second "WHAT DOES AN ANALYST WANT?"   WTF is anyone going to do with images as output?  What if one is doing a lot of automation and hundreds of analyses?  The Model Viewer is in my limited experience with using it sports an admirable vision crippled by an utterly failed implementation.  
Seriously, does anybody at IBM have a clue?  How did this silliness get the green light?  Why haven't heads rolled?   If the ultimate plan is to wrap all future output in this utter crap then it's maybe time to learn R.
If certain of the dust encrusted dinosaurs (I won't mention names) had trouble getting use to Pivot Table output (yeah, I remember all the whining and screaming about that)... They are going to totally $#!^ themselves when they get a load of the abomination called the model viewer !
Please SPSS/IBM no more of this crap!  If you are going to do something do it right!  Don't force users (unsolicited -nobody in their right mind if asked and presented with this as usable would agree-) into buying your vision of what's 'cool' what's 'slick' what's 'bleeding edge' .... Looks like you cut yourself!
Or maybe I am missing something really important here?  I mean seriously, it couldn't possibly intentionally be as bad as it is?

JeremyT wrote

Thanks!

I have just upgraded to V21.
When I export or copy from the model viewer (the default output mode for GenLinMixed) all of the objects (tables and plots) are imported/pasted as images (paste special doesn't help).  Thus the ghastly tables are not editable except as pictures. Am I missing a something?  I have been through all the options in export and in the viewer.
So, switching to pivot table output under Options as suggested and running the same analysis via syntax on the same data then the Statistics engine crashes:“Unrecoverable application error in the Statistics Processor”
So I am no further forward with this.

[MaxJasper]

SPSS 21 properly copies as rtf, text, and image…you might need to reinstall SPSS 21 properly.

 

Max.

 

From: David Marso [via SPSSX Discussion] [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: 2012-Sep-12 Wednesday 09:59
To: MaxJasper
Subject: Re: Getting text output from GenlinMixed

 

"all of the objects (tables and plots) are imported/pasted as images "
WOW!  I just opened 20 and attempted to export as text.  Opened the file and it
Chart title : Model Viewer
Chart file exported to : "C:\Users\David Marso\Desktop\SPSSOutJunk1.png"
Well, I have a sense of humor but that is simply NOT funny in the least.  It is pathetic, inexcusable and simply beyond my comprehension!

It seems obvious that someone (actually a large team in all likelihood) in charge at SPSS forgot the afterthought of "use case scenarios" in favor of an obsession with bling and "what does a manager want -er play with pretty pictures and diddle knobs-" rather than asking for even a second "WHAT DOES AN ANALYST WANT?"   WTF is anyone going to do with images as output?  What if one is doing a lot of automation and hundreds of analyses?  The Model Viewer is in my limited experience with using it sports an admirable vision crippled by an utterly failed implementation.  
Seriously, does anybody at IBM have a clue?  How did this silliness get the green light?  Why haven't heads rolled?   If the ultimate plan is to wrap all future output in this utter crap then it's maybe time to learn R.
If certain of the dust encrusted dinosaurs (I won't mention names) had trouble getting use to Pivot Table output (yeah, I remember all the whining and screaming about that)... They are going to totally $#!^ themselves when they get a load of the abomination called the model viewer !
Please SPSS/IBM no more of this crap!  If you are going to do something do it right!  Don't force users (unsolicited -nobody in their right mind if asked and presented with this as usable would agree-) into buying your vision of what's 'cool' what's 'slick' what's 'bleeding edge' .... Looks like you cut yourself!
Or maybe I am missing something really important here?  I mean seriously, it couldn't possibly intentionally be as bad as it is?

JeremyT wrote

Thanks!

I have just upgraded to V21.
When I export or copy from the model viewer (the default output mode for GenLinMixed) all of the objects (tables and plots) are imported/pasted as images (paste special doesn't help).  Thus the ghastly tables are not editable except as pictures. Am I missing a something?  I have been through all the options in export and in the viewer.
So, switching to pivot table output under Options as suggested and running the same analysis via syntax on the same data then the Statistics engine crashes:“Unrecoverable application error in the Statistics Processor”
So I am no further forward with this.

[MaxJasper]

Here is an output from SPSS 21 GenlinMixed as rtf:

 

 

Estimates of Covariance Parametersa
Parameter		Estimate	Std. Error	Wald Z	Sig.	95% Confidence Interval
						Lower Bound	Upper Bound
Residual		.191334	.015163	12.618	.000	.163807	.223487
Intercept [subject = dose.change]	Variance	.215456	.061838	3.484	.000	.122759	.378149
a. Dependent Variable: GLUCF: Plasma Glucose, fasting 8h, mmol/L (raw lab results).

 

 

Max.

 

From: David Marso [via SPSSX Discussion] [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: 2012-Sep-12 Wednesday 09:59
To: MaxJasper
Subject: Re: Getting text output from GenlinMixed

 

"all of the objects (tables and plots) are imported/pasted as images "
WOW!  I just opened 20 and attempted to export as text.  Opened the file and it
Chart title : Model Viewer
Chart file exported to : "C:\Users\David Marso\Desktop\SPSSOutJunk1.png"
Well, I have a sense of humor but that is simply NOT funny in the least.  It is pathetic, inexcusable and simply beyond my comprehension!

It seems obvious that someone (actually a large team in all likelihood) in charge at SPSS forgot the afterthought of "use case scenarios" in favor of an obsession with bling and "what does a manager want -er play with pretty pictures and diddle knobs-" rather than asking for even a second "WHAT DOES AN ANALYST WANT?"   WTF is anyone going to do with images as output?  What if one is doing a lot of automation and hundreds of analyses?  The Model Viewer is in my limited experience with using it sports an admirable vision crippled by an utterly failed implementation.  
Seriously, does anybody at IBM have a clue?  How did this silliness get the green light?  Why haven't heads rolled?   If the ultimate plan is to wrap all future output in this utter crap then it's maybe time to learn R.
If certain of the dust encrusted dinosaurs (I won't mention names) had trouble getting use to Pivot Table output (yeah, I remember all the whining and screaming about that)... They are going to totally $#!^ themselves when they get a load of the abomination called the model viewer !
Please SPSS/IBM no more of this crap!  If you are going to do something do it right!  Don't force users (unsolicited -nobody in their right mind if asked and presented with this as usable would agree-) into buying your vision of what's 'cool' what's 'slick' what's 'bleeding edge' .... Looks like you cut yourself!
Or maybe I am missing something really important here?  I mean seriously, it couldn't possibly intentionally be as bad as it is?

JeremyT wrote

Thanks!

I have just upgraded to V21.
When I export or copy from the model viewer (the default output mode for GenLinMixed) all of the objects (tables and plots) are imported/pasted as images (paste special doesn't help).  Thus the ghastly tables are not editable except as pictures. Am I missing a something?  I have been through all the options in export and in the viewer.
So, switching to pivot table output under Options as suggested and running the same analysis via syntax on the same data then the Statistics engine crashes:“Unrecoverable application error in the Statistics Processor”
So I am no further forward with this.

[David Marso]

How about text export?
In 20 I get a bunch of .png graphic files ;-(
Looks like rtf might be the answer for Jeremy.
I still view the model viewer as a bit "output for managers not analysts" (OFMNA).
Maybe I'll modify/temper my view with experience?
What sort of scripting APIs are there for such a beast?

MaxJasper wrote

SPSS 21 properly copies as rtf, text, and image…you might need to reinstall SPSS 21 properly.

 

Max.

 

From: David Marso [via SPSSX Discussion] [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: 2012-Sep-12 Wednesday 09:59
To: MaxJasper
Subject: Re: Getting text output from GenlinMixed

 

"all of the objects (tables and plots) are imported/pasted as images "
WOW!  I just opened 20 and attempted to export as text.  Opened the file and it
Chart title : Model Viewer
Chart file exported to : "C:\Users\David Marso\Desktop\SPSSOutJunk1.png"
Well, I have a sense of humor but that is simply NOT funny in the least.  It is pathetic, inexcusable and simply beyond my comprehension!

It seems obvious that someone (actually a large team in all likelihood) in charge at SPSS forgot the afterthought of "use case scenarios" in favor of an obsession with bling and "what does a manager want -er play with pretty pictures and diddle knobs-" rather than asking for even a second "WHAT DOES AN ANALYST WANT?"   WTF is anyone going to do with images as output?  What if one is doing a lot of automation and hundreds of analyses?  The Model Viewer is in my limited experience with using it sports an admirable vision crippled by an utterly failed implementation.  
Seriously, does anybody at IBM have a clue?  How did this silliness get the green light?  Why haven't heads rolled?   If the ultimate plan is to wrap all future output in this utter crap then it's maybe time to learn R.
If certain of the dust encrusted dinosaurs (I won't mention names) had trouble getting use to Pivot Table output (yeah, I remember all the whining and screaming about that)... They are going to totally $#!^ themselves when they get a load of the abomination called the model viewer !
Please SPSS/IBM no more of this crap!  If you are going to do something do it right!  Don't force users (unsolicited -nobody in their right mind if asked and presented with this as usable would agree-) into buying your vision of what's 'cool' what's 'slick' what's 'bleeding edge' .... Looks like you cut yourself!
Or maybe I am missing something really important here?  I mean seriously, it couldn't possibly intentionally be as bad as it is?

JeremyT wrote

Thanks!

I have just upgraded to V21.
When I export or copy from the model viewer (the default output mode for GenLinMixed) all of the objects (tables and plots) are imported/pasted as images (paste special doesn't help).  Thus the ghastly tables are not editable except as pictures. Am I missing a something?  I have been through all the options in export and in the viewer.
So, switching to pivot table output under Options as suggested and running the same analysis via syntax on the same data then the Statistics engine crashes:“Unrecoverable application error in the Statistics Processor”
So I am no further forward with this.

[JeremyT]

@Max  Do you have "output as pivot tables" set in your options?  When I do this it crashes.

@David  Seems I am stuffed until I get the "output as pivot tables" working without without crashing. I just found this in the help file for the model viewer "Note that all model views, including tables, are exported as graphics. " I see Model Viewer-creep elsewhere, for example the Non-parametric output is now a model! As you say,  WTF.

[Bruce Weaver]

The new-fangled NPTESTS command produces model viewer crap.  But you can still use NPAR TESTS (accessible via the "legacy dialogs" in the GUI).

JeremyT wrote

@Max  Do you have "output as pivot tables" set in your options?  When I do this it crashes.

@David  Seems I am stuffed until I get the "output as pivot tables" working without without crashing. I just found this in the help file for the model viewer "Note that all model views, including tables, are exported as graphics. " I see Model Viewer-creep elsewhere, for example the Non-parametric output is now a model! As you say,  WTF.

[Alex Reutter]

Jeremy, could you post the syntax of the GENLINMIXED job that crashes?  And does running a simple job succeed or fail?  For example, open the sample file bankloan.sav that ships with the product and run:

SET ODISPLAY=TABLES.
GENLINMIXED
  /FIELDS TARGET=default
  /FIXED  EFFECTS=age ed employ address income debtinc creddebt othdebt USE_INTERCEPT=TRUE.

This works for me in v21.

Alex

[MaxJasper]

JeremyT,

 

Check your data on another computer to see if crashes too. As mine does not crash then it might be a local issue. Enough RAM? Reinstall SPSS?! Size of data? Does it crash with a smaller data set too?

 

Max.

 

To: MaxJasper
Subject: Re: Getting text output from GenlinMixed

 

@Max  Do you have "output as pivot tables" set in your options?  When I do this it crashes.

[JeremyT]

Alex

I ran your code and it worked fine!  So I tried something similar and very simple:

SET ODISPLAY=TABLES.
GENLINMIXED
  /FIELDS TARGET=bacteria
  /FIXED  EFFECTS= surface USE_INTERCEPT=TRUE.

and it crashed again. Interesting.......I cannot provide the data publically here as I work in a corporate R&D environment and they are a tad sensitive about their numbers. I will have a chat with support on the phone and see what they can suggest.

Thanks for everyone's help with this

[Maguin, Eugene]

Jeremy,
Please report back what you found out.

This will probably come up again ... and again. I hope I'm wrong but it seems like specific people at spss/ibm think this model viewer is a great improvement (it would be interesting to hear why they think that) and other specific people agree and so maybe its use will spread across other procedures. But, I hope to hell not.
Gene Maguin

-----Original Message-----
From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of JeremyT
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 11:09 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Getting text output from GenlinMixed

Alex

I ran your code and it worked fine!  So I tried something similar and very
simple:

SET ODISPLAY=TABLES.
GENLINMIXED
  /FIELDS TARGET=bacteria
  /FIXED  EFFECTS= surface USE_INTERCEPT=TRUE.

and it crashed again. Interesting.......I cannot provide the data publically here as I work in a corporate R&D environment and they are a tad sensitive about their numbers. I will have a chat with support on the phone and see what they can suggest.

Thanks for everyone's help with this



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[Alex Reutter]

Oh, good; well, bad that you're having the problem, but good that it's been narrowed down to your particular data.  I hope support gets you up and running soon.

I wonder if there's some table that can't be produced for your data, and that's causing the crash.  They'll probably ask you during your chat, but It might help support to know if, when running the analysis and producing model viewer output, and whether there are any warnings or errors reported within the model viewer or in the regular output viewer.

Good luck,
Alex

[JeremyT]

After a short interlude away from the office, I got to grips with this problem again this week and SPSS support quickly tracked the issue down to a bug caused when SET ODISPLAY=TABLES is used along with the inclusion in the analysis  of a string factor that has embedded blanks. Judicious use of recode will prevent this until a fix is issued.