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A number of individuals highly recommend R. I do not have much
inclination to switch to R (I had downloaded it about four years ago and didn't know where to go from there) for two reasons. As someone said, there is a steep learning curve. The other reason is that because R is freeware, I believe all the statistical procedures were written by users. Is this correct? If so, I feel more comfortable with a package like SPSS or Stata because there is a profit motive, and because there is a profit motive these companies have a definite interest in testing the product before release and correcting any errors after release. In other words, one can be more cerain the statistical results from the various procedures are correct. I do not think this can be said of R. Is this correct? Stan ===================== To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD |
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I bet you'd get some very interesting responses if you posted your question here:
http://r.789695.n4.nabble.com/ ;-)
--
Bruce Weaver bweaver@lakeheadu.ca http://sites.google.com/a/lakeheadu.ca/bweaver/ "When all else fails, RTFM." PLEASE NOTE THE FOLLOWING: 1. My Hotmail account is not monitored regularly. To send me an e-mail, please use the address shown above. 2. The SPSSX Discussion forum on Nabble is no longer linked to the SPSSX-L listserv administered by UGA (https://listserv.uga.edu/). |
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On 5/7/2013 7:07 PM, Bruce Weaver wrote:
> I bet you'd get some very interesting responses if you posted your question > here: > > http://r.789695.n4.nabble.com/ > I am sure you are absolutely correct. :-) But, this raises another issue I have with R. The link you provide is a discussion group. I have come to dislike having to rely solely on discussion groups to get answers to questions. In astronomy there is a new protocol called ASCOM. One has to rely completely on a discussion group to get answers to questions. As a result one has to deal with personalities and their willingness to help. I get so tired of having to rephrase something. It is amazing how difficult communication can be at times. SPSS and Stata, in contrast, have manuals that come from the companies. I believe there are manuals for R, but they were not produced by a company and so may be limited in their scope. I may be talking out of ignorance regarding R, but that is my impression. There are two extremes, ASCOM which totally relies on a discussion group, and SAS. It is incredible the number of manuals SAS has. The last time I checked about 12 years ago it would have taken about 2 or 3 feet of manuals, probably even more, if one wanted to be complete (that is, if one wants hard copies). Stan > ;-) > > > > Stan Gorodenski wrote > >> A number of individuals highly recommend R. I do not have much >> inclination to switch to R (I had downloaded it about four years ago and >> didn't know where to go from there) for two reasons. As someone said, >> there is a steep learning curve. The other reason is that because R is >> freeware, I believe all the statistical procedures were written by >> users. Is this correct? If so, I feel more comfortable with a package >> like SPSS or Stata because there is a profit motive, and because there >> is a profit motive these companies have a definite interest in testing >> the product before release and correcting any errors after release. In >> other words, one can be more cerain the statistical results from the >> various procedures are correct. I do not think this can be said of R. Is >> this correct? >> Stan >> >> ===================== >> To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to >> > >> LISTSERV@.UGA >> > >> (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the >> command. To leave the list, send the command >> SIGNOFF SPSSX-L >> For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command >> INFO REFCARD >> > > > > > ----- > -- > Bruce Weaver > [hidden email] > http://sites.google.com/a/lakeheadu.ca/bweaver/ > > "When all else fails, RTFM." > > NOTE: My Hotmail account is not monitored regularly. > To send me an e-mail, please use the address shown above. > > -- > View this message in context: http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/R-tp5720058p5720060.html > Sent from the SPSSX Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > ===================== > To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to > [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the > command. To leave the list, send the command > SIGNOFF SPSSX-L > For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command > INFO REFCARD > > > > ===================== To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD |
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In reply to this post by Stan Gorodenski
INTERSPERSED:
Please reply to the list and not to my personal email.
Those desiring my consulting or training services please feel free to email me. --- "Nolite dare sanctum canibus neque mittatis margaritas vestras ante porcos ne forte conculcent eas pedibus suis." Cum es damnatorum possederunt porcos iens ut salire off sanguinum cliff in abyssum?" |
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In reply to this post by Stan Gorodenski
AGAIN INTERSPERSED:
Please reply to the list and not to my personal email.
Those desiring my consulting or training services please feel free to email me. --- "Nolite dare sanctum canibus neque mittatis margaritas vestras ante porcos ne forte conculcent eas pedibus suis." Cum es damnatorum possederunt porcos iens ut salire off sanguinum cliff in abyssum?" |
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In reply to this post by David Marso
>From: David Marso <[hidden email]>
>To: [hidden email] >Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2013 9:25 AM >Subject: Re: [SPSSX-L] R > > >INTERSPERSED: > >Stan Gorodenski wrote >> A number of individuals highly recommend R. I do not have much >> inclination to switch to R (I had downloaded it about four years ago and >> didn't know where to go from there) for two reasons. As someone said, >> there is a steep learning curve. >> >> DMM: Rather steep and I personally find the syntax to be rather terse and >> many find the need to make it even more incomprehensible by forgetting to >> comment their code and doing gobblygook one liners instead of parceling >> out implementations into more readable steps. Same applies to many >> pythonistas! Yes, good coding practice is important for any language! Code reviews should be the rule. >> The other reason is that because R is >> freeware, I believe all the statistical procedures were written by >> users. Is this correct? >> >> DMM: All users are not created equal. I am sure many of the R packages >> are quite robust and error 'free' The problem I find is that there are so >> many of them and testing is a b!^@#. Consider the source! Many >> contributors are highly qualified, others are hacks! I imagine the R >> community sniffs out the real McCoy from the lusers in short order. There are something like 3600 packages. Many of them written by highly qualified people, some by pot-smoking students. Among colleagues it is good to decide on a subset of additional packages to work with. E.g.: "we choose ggplot2 and not trellis to make graphs". The less external dependencies, the better. >> If so, I feel more comfortable with a package >> like SPSS or Stata because there is a profit motive, and because there >> is a profit motive these companies have a definite interest in testing >> the product before release and correcting any errors after release. >> >> DMM: Yeah, GREED can be a motivator for CYA. So can prestige. And so can Brian Ripley, one of the godfathers of R. Many people got "Ripleyd" after submitting pakcages with errors. For big packages, the source code might be scrutinized by more people in case of open source code. >> In other words, one can be more cer(t)ain the statistical results from the >> various procedures are correct. I do not think this can be said of R. Is >> this correct? Sounds like the SAS marketeers were succesful when they tried to scare people saying "our customers make jet engines; would you like to have them do this with an open source package like R"? (sorry, I can't find the source of that message) ===================== To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD |
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Albert-Jan's comment about jet engines reminded me that R-users often point out R complies with FDA regulations. For more info, see some of the links on this page:
http://blog.revolutionanalytics.com/2012/06/fda-r-ok.html
--
Bruce Weaver bweaver@lakeheadu.ca http://sites.google.com/a/lakeheadu.ca/bweaver/ "When all else fails, RTFM." PLEASE NOTE THE FOLLOWING: 1. My Hotmail account is not monitored regularly. To send me an e-mail, please use the address shown above. 2. The SPSSX Discussion forum on Nabble is no longer linked to the SPSSX-L listserv administered by UGA (https://listserv.uga.edu/). |
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In reply to this post by David Marso
Stan and everyone else: SPSS is great software and I’ve been using it since the mid-1980s when it was housed at the University on a VAX machine, using vi as the editor (No – I don’t think we
need too many more posts related to the traffic thread.). Separate from the statistical analyses supported by SPSS, the ctables module alone is a pearl without price. Saying that, I’ve also moved new projects over to R whenever possible. Why? Diversification is good, if nothing else for self-protection.
I am concerned that SPSS will soon price itself out of reach for many of us in higher education.
Do you remember when Deans were the major decision-makers in higher education? Increasingly (at least here is the U.S.), higher education has become more corporate (even
at the state schools and not-for-profits) and we now have business managers who have little to no classroom experience influencing decision-making, and some are now starting to question the high cost of SPSS license fees. So, both for administrative jobs as well as classroom teaching, I’m moving more activities over to R. Is R good software since those who develop the base package and external packages do not receive a paycheck for their efforts? We all have separate ideas, but I certainly
respect those who work with missionary zeal as opposed to those who are only concerned about last quarter’s profit statement, ship dates (think dBase IV), and today’s stock price.
Ultimately, however, the market will determine the winners and losers, whether the product is expensive or free.
If you need a brief introduction to R please take a look at the videos listed below, even if they are slightly dated:
Comment: The R tables package (http://cran.r-project.org/web/packages/tables/vignettes/tables.pdf),
specifically the tables::tabular() function, does not yet equal the SPSS ctables module, but it is getting close. When that happens SPSS will have an end-product rival that may be hard to hold back.
Full Disclosure (and not a shameless plug): I have a R-based text (<a href="http://www.springer.com/statistics/social+sciences+%26+law/book/978-1-4614-2133-7">http://www.springer.com/statistics/social+sciences+%26+law/book/978-1-4614-2133-7)
that is still available and a new text (R for biostatistics) will be available before too long. Best wishes. Tom
---------- Thomas W. MacFarland, Ed.D. Senior Research Associate; Institutional Effectiveness and Associate Professor Nova Southeastern University Voice 954-262-5395 [hidden email] -----Original Message----- AGAIN INTERSPERSED: Stan Gorodenski wrote > On 5/7/2013 7:07 PM, Bruce Weaver wrote: >> I bet you'd get some very interesting responses if you posted your
>> question >> here: >> >> http://r.789695.n4.nabble.com/ >> > > I am sure you are absolutely correct. :-) > > But, this raises another issue I have with R. The link you provide is
> a discussion group. I have come to dislike having to rely solely on
> discussion groups to get answers to questions. > > DMM: Well, there is always package documentation and various online
> training resources. > > In astronomy there is a > new protocol called ASCOM. One has to rely completely on a discussion
> group to get answers to questions. As a result one has to deal with
> personalities and their willingness to help. > > DMM: I'll bet ASCOM has some sort of documentation. I don't
> personally know anything about it and am not interested enough in
> astronomy to bother researching the issue. > Personalities are like A$$#@!%$ everyone has one. I for one am
> sometimes mistaken for an A$$#@!% due to my personality. Willingness
> to help is a crapshoot. If you have a question that maybe one person
> in the DG knows the answer, you might have a problem. > OTOH: There is this mysterious element in the universe called
> reciprocity. Put in take out. > People who frequently take but don't reciprocate get to know the
> A$$#@!% side of my personality. > > I get so tired of having to rephrase something. > > DMM: I get so tired of people who think they can rely on others
> InterNeTelepathy and ESPss skills to read their minds when they don't
> provide sufficient information to understand the issue much or less
> solve the problem. Phrase it explicitly with examples in the first
> place and there is not so much of a need to rephrase. Lately people
> in this group seem to think of it as a place to twitter their plights
> rather than carefully explicate the nature of the issue, what was
> tried, what failed, what came close, sample of data in/data out.
> Almost as though it is expected that the solvers here spend more time
> thinking about the issue than the OP (I am almost tempted to name some
> names). For these peeps I post one liners or subject them to the Socratic method. > > BTW Stan: You are not guilty of such. Your posted questions here are
> typically well thought out and you take the effort to be clear and do
> the heavy lifting WRT RTFM and background research prior to posting. > > It is amazing how difficult communication can be at times. SPSS and
> Stata, in contrast, have manuals that come from the companies. I
> believe there are manuals for R, but they were not produced by a
> company and so may be limited in their scope. > > DMM: You seem to relish the comfort of 'companies'. I for one am
> exploring open source options at every opportunity! For example, I
> would rather use GIMP or ImageJ to do photo editing or generating my
> video art then shell out several hundred dollars for PhotoShop. > Why would I spend a ton on upgrading M$ office when I can acquire
> OpenOffice or NeoOffice for FREE. > Why would I dump $20+K on SPSS Modeller when I can DL Rapid Miner? > List goes on and on! > Yeah Stan, trust the 'companies'... They have your best interest and
> comfort at heart! > > I may be talking out > of ignorance regarding R, but that is my impression. There are two
> extremes, ASCOM which totally relies on a discussion group, and SAS.
> It is incredible the number of manuals SAS has. The last time I
> checked about 12 years ago it would have taken about 2 or 3 feet of
> manuals, probably even more, if one wanted to be complete (that is, if
> one wants hard copies). > > DMM: AFAICK: you can likely find pretty in depth info by querying
> something as simple as R Manuals >
http://www.search.ask.com/web?q=R%20Manuals&o=15554&l=dis&qsrc=2871 > > > Stan > > >> ;-) >> >> >> >> Stan Gorodenski wrote >> >>> A number of individuals highly recommend R. I do not have much
>>> inclination to switch to R (I had downloaded it about four years ago
>>> and didn't know where to go from there) for two reasons. As someone
>>> said, there is a steep learning curve. The other reason is that
>>> because R is freeware, I believe all the statistical procedures were
>>> written by users. Is this correct? If so, I feel more comfortable
>>> with a package like SPSS or Stata because there is a profit motive,
>>> and because there is a profit motive these companies have a definite
>>> interest in testing the product before release and correcting any
>>> errors after release. In other words, one can be more cerain the
>>> statistical results from the various procedures are correct. I do
>>> not think this can be said of R. Is this correct? >>> Stan >>> >>> ===================== >>> To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to >>> >> >>> [hidden email] >>> >> >>> (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave
>>> the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to
>>> manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD >>> >> >> >> >> >> ----- >> -- >> Bruce Weaver >> > bweaver@ >>
http://sites.google.com/a/lakeheadu.ca/bweaver/ >> >> "When all else fails, RTFM." >> >> NOTE: My Hotmail account is not monitored regularly. >> To send me an e-mail, please use the address shown above. >> >> -- >> View this message in context: >>
http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/R-tp5720058p5720060.htm >> l Sent from the SPSSX Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >> ===================== >> To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to >> > (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the >> command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a
>> list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO
>> REFCARD >> >> >> >> > > ===================== > To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to > (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the
> list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to
> manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD ----- Please reply to the list and not to my personal email. Those desiring my consulting or training services please feel free to email me. --- "Nolite dare sanctum canibus neque mittatis margaritas vestras ante porcos ne forte conculcent eas pedibus suis." Cum es damnatorum possederunt porcos iens ut salire off sanguinum cliff in abyssum?" -- View this message in context:
http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/R-tp5720058p5720067.html Sent from the SPSSX Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ===================== To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to
[hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands
to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD |
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In reply to this post by Stan Gorodenski
"(I had downloaded it about four years ago and didn't know where to go from there)"
http://www.codeschool.com/courses/try-r I worked through most of these a while back and they were quite useful (if a bit on the noobish side). --
Please reply to the list and not to my personal email.
Those desiring my consulting or training services please feel free to email me. --- "Nolite dare sanctum canibus neque mittatis margaritas vestras ante porcos ne forte conculcent eas pedibus suis." Cum es damnatorum possederunt porcos iens ut salire off sanguinum cliff in abyssum?" |
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Thanks David.
I too downloaded and installed but have never had the time to really figure things out past that point. Dale Dale Pietrzak, Ed.D., LPCMH, CCMHC Director, Office of Academic Evaluation and Assessment University of South Dakota Slagle Hall Room 102 414 East Clark Street 605-677-6497 -----Original Message----- From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of David Marso Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 8:52 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: R "(I had downloaded it about four years ago and didn't know where to go from there)" http://www.codeschool.com/courses/try-r I worked through most of these a while back and they were quite useful (if a bit on the noobish side). -- Stan Gorodenski wrote > A number of individuals highly recommend R. I do not have much > inclination to switch to R (I had downloaded it about four years ago > and didn't know where to go from there) for two reasons. As someone > said, there is a steep learning curve. The other reason is that > because R is freeware, I believe all the statistical procedures were > written by users. Is this correct? If so, I feel more comfortable with > a package like SPSS or Stata because there is a profit motive, and > because there is a profit motive these companies have a definite > interest in testing the product before release and correcting any > errors after release. In other words, one can be more cerain the > statistical results from the various procedures are correct. I do not > think this can be said of R. Is this correct? > Stan > > ===================== > To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to > LISTSERV@.UGA > (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the > list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to > manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD ----- Please reply to the list and not to my personal email. Those desiring my consulting or training services please feel free to email me. --- "Nolite dare sanctum canibus neque mittatis margaritas vestras ante porcos ne forte conculcent eas pedibus suis." Cum es damnatorum possederunt porcos iens ut salire off sanguinum cliff in abyssum?" -- View this message in context: http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/R-tp5720058p5720079.html Sent from the SPSSX Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ===================== To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD ===================== To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD |
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In reply to this post by Thomas MacFarland
I too downloaded R. Forget it: too much learning to be able to write sensible tutorials or for students to learn enough in 13 hours to be able to do anything useful. I taught survey processing and analysis using SPSS for 23 years from 1972 until I (early) retired in 1992, and I still use it in my website tutorials. My students got jobs: would they with R? Tell the business managers that (although in the UK the Deans in the Polytechnics which became Universities in 1992 were also part of corporate management). One of my ex-researchers was once promoted over my head by Stalinist senior management to be Director of Research (aka Business Manager, Research): when I repeated to her the late Angus Campbell’s advice to me, “Never employ anyone whose job you couldn’t take over if you had to.” she stormed off in a huff. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: the SPSS rot started when they went after the business market and let marketing people act as their agents. I appreciate that the success of SPSSI was threatening the charitable status of the University of Chicago, but once IBM took over, academic users were doomed. IBM are only ever, and always have been, interested in profits: didn’t anyone tell you? That’s why so many academic institutions are turning to Stata, but will their students still get jobs? Tell the Deans/Business Managers that as well. John F Hall (Mr) [Retired academic survey researcher] Email: [hidden email] Website: www.surveyresearch.weebly.com Start page: www.surveyresearch.weebly.com/spss-without-tears.html From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Dr. Thomas W. MacFarland Stan and everyone else: SPSS is great software and I’ve been using it since the mid-1980s when it was housed at the University on a VAX machine, using vi as the editor (No – I don’t think we need too many more posts related to the traffic thread.). Separate from the statistical analyses supported by SPSS, the ctables module alone is a pearl without price. Saying that, I’ve also moved new projects over to R whenever possible. Why? Diversification is good, if nothing else for self-protection. I am concerned that SPSS will soon price itself out of reach for many of us in higher education. Do you remember when Deans were the major decision-makers in higher education? Increasingly (at least here is the U.S.), higher education has become more corporate (even at the state schools and not-for-profits) and we now have business managers who have little to no classroom experience influencing decision-making, and some are now starting to question the high cost of SPSS license fees. So, both for administrative jobs as well as classroom teaching, I’m moving more activities over to R. Is R good software since those who develop the base package and external packages do not receive a paycheck for their efforts? We all have separate ideas, but I certainly respect those who work with missionary zeal as opposed to those who are only concerned about last quarter’s profit statement, ship dates (think dBase IV), and today’s stock price. Ultimately, however, the market will determine the winners and losers, whether the product is expensive or free. If you need a brief introduction to R please take a look at the videos listed below, even if they are slightly dated:
Comment: The R tables package (http://cran.r-project.org/web/packages/tables/vignettes/tables.pdf), specifically the tables::tabular() function, does not yet equal the SPSS ctables module, but it is getting close. When that happens SPSS will have an end-product rival that may be hard to hold back. Full Disclosure (and not a shameless plug): I have a R-based text (http://www.springer.com/statistics/social+sciences+%26+law/book/978-1-4614-2133-7) that is still available and a new text (R for biostatistics) will be available before too long. Best wishes. Tom ---------- Thomas W. MacFarland, Ed.D. Senior Research Associate; Institutional Effectiveness and Associate Professor Nova Southeastern University Voice 954-262-5395 [hidden email] -----Original Message----- AGAIN INTERSPERSED: Stan Gorodenski wrote > On 5/7/2013 7:07 PM, Bruce Weaver wrote: >> I bet you'd get some very interesting responses if you posted your >> question >> here: >> >> http://r.789695.n4.nabble.com/ >> > > I am sure you are absolutely correct. :-) > > But, this raises another issue I have with R. The link you provide is > a discussion group. I have come to dislike having to rely solely on > discussion groups to get answers to questions. > > DMM: Well, there is always package documentation and various online > training resources. > > In astronomy there is a > new protocol called ASCOM. One has to rely completely on a discussion > group to get answers to questions. As a result one has to deal with > personalities and their willingness to help. > > DMM: I'll bet ASCOM has some sort of documentation. I don't > personally know anything about it and am not interested enough in > astronomy to bother researching the issue. > Personalities are like A$$#@!%$ everyone has one. I for one am > sometimes mistaken for an A$$#@!% due to my personality. Willingness > to help is a crapshoot. If you have a question that maybe one person > in the DG knows the answer, you might have a problem. > OTOH: There is this mysterious element in the universe called > reciprocity. Put in take out. > People who frequently take but don't reciprocate get to know the > A$$#@!% side of my personality. > > I get so tired of having to rephrase something. > > DMM: I get so tired of people who think they can rely on others > InterNeTelepathy and ESPss skills to read their minds when they don't > provide sufficient information to understand the issue much or less > solve the problem. Phrase it explicitly with examples in the first > place and there is not so much of a need to rephrase. Lately people > in this group seem to think of it as a place to twitter their plights > rather than carefully explicate the nature of the issue, what was > tried, what failed, what came close, sample of data in/data out. > Almost as though it is expected that the solvers here spend more time > thinking about the issue than the OP (I am almost tempted to name some > names). For these peeps I post one liners or subject them to the Socratic method. > > BTW Stan: You are not guilty of such. Your posted questions here are > typically well thought out and you take the effort to be clear and do > the heavy lifting WRT RTFM and background research prior to posting. > > It is amazing how difficult communication can be at times. SPSS and > Stata, in contrast, have manuals that come from the companies. I > believe there are manuals for R, but they were not produced by a > company and so may be limited in their scope. > > DMM: You seem to relish the comfort of 'companies'. I for one am > exploring open source options at every opportunity! For example, I > would rather use GIMP or ImageJ to do photo editing or generating my > video art then shell out several hundred dollars for PhotoShop. > Why would I spend a ton on upgrading M$ office when I can acquire > OpenOffice or NeoOffice for FREE. > Why would I dump $20+K on SPSS Modeller when I can DL Rapid Miner? > List goes on and on! > Yeah Stan, trust the 'companies'... They have your best interest and > comfort at heart! > > I may be talking out > of ignorance regarding R, but that is my impression. There are two > extremes, ASCOM which totally relies on a discussion group, and SAS. > It is incredible the number of manuals SAS has. The last time I > checked about 12 years ago it would have taken about 2 or 3 feet of > manuals, probably even more, if one wanted to be complete (that is, if > one wants hard copies). > > DMM: AFAICK: you can likely find pretty in depth info by querying > something as simple as R Manuals > http://www.search.ask.com/web?q=R%20Manuals&o=15554&l=dis&qsrc=2871 > > > Stan > > >> ;-) >> >> >> >> Stan Gorodenski wrote >> >>> A number of individuals highly recommend R. I do not have much >>> inclination to switch to R (I had downloaded it about four years ago >>> and didn't know where to go from there) for two reasons. As someone >>> said, there is a steep learning curve. The other reason is that >>> because R is freeware, I believe all the statistical procedures were >>> written by users. Is this correct? If so, I feel more comfortable >>> with a package like SPSS or Stata because there is a profit motive, >>> and because there is a profit motive these companies have a definite >>> interest in testing the product before release and correcting any >>> errors after release. In other words, one can be more cerain the >>> statistical results from the various procedures are correct. I do >>> not think this can be said of R. Is this correct? >>> Stan >>> >>> ===================== >>> To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to >>> >> >>> [hidden email] >>> >> >>> (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave >>> the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to >>> manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD >>> >> >> >> >> >> ----- >> -- >> Bruce Weaver >> > bweaver@ >> http://sites.google.com/a/lakeheadu.ca/bweaver/ >> >> "When all else fails, RTFM." >> >> NOTE: My Hotmail account is not monitored regularly. >> To send me an e-mail, please use the address shown above. >> >> -- >> View this message in context: >> http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/R-tp5720058p5720060.htm >> l Sent from the SPSSX Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >> ===================== >> To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to >> > (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the >> command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a >> list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO >> REFCARD >> >> >> >> > > ===================== > To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to > (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the > list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to > manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD ----- Please reply to the list and not to my personal email. Those desiring my consulting or training services please feel free to email me. --- "Nolite dare sanctum canibus neque mittatis margaritas vestras ante porcos ne forte conculcent eas pedibus suis." Cum es damnatorum possederunt porcos iens ut salire off sanguinum cliff in abyssum?" -- View this message in context: http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/R-tp5720058p5720067.html Sent from the SPSSX Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ===================== To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD |
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In reply to this post by Bruce Weaver
> Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2013 2:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [SPSSX-L] R > > Albert-Jan's comment about jet engines reminded me that R-users often point > out R complies with FDA regulations.� For more info, see some of the links > on this page: > > � http://blog.revolutionanalytics.com/2012/06/fda-r-ok.html Interesting! By the way, I just found the quote of the SAS marketeer lady: """SAS says it has noticed R’s rising popularity at universities, despite educational discounts on its own software, but it dismisses the technology as being of interest to a limited set of people working on very hard tasks.“I think it addresses a niche market for high-end data analysts that want free, readily available code," said Anne H. Milley, director of technology product marketing at SAS. She adds, “We have customers who build engines for aircraft. I am happy they are not using freeware when I get on a jet.""" http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/07/technology/business-computing/07program.html/?pagewanted=all&_r=0 But here she says: """As for open source and my airplane quote … My remark reflects a key difference between R and SAS, that of support, reliability, and validation. Customers value SAS for many things, including our extensive testing, documentation, 24/7 support, and training. In contrast, the quality of proliferating R packages is varied and uneven, especially in complex analytical modules. Mistakes in these packages can lead to misleading results, even for experienced users.""" http://blogs.sas.com/content/sascom/2009/01/09/this-post-is-rated-r/ Re: support: R does not have not support in the traditional sense (except Revolution R), but the R community is huge, and library authors are usually very helpful. Sometimes it seems that the need for "blame and shame" makes companies choose for commercial alternatives. ===================== To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD |
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In reply to this post by Stan Gorodenski
Here is a similar discussion on the crossvalidated Q/A site, http://stats.stackexchange.com/q/33780/1036
Most of the time these discussions turn into total flame wars with people with questionable experience in multiple software environments. (frequently when SPSS is brought up in such discussions it is labeled as if it has no syntax at all and can only be controlled through GUI dialogs) |
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In reply to this post by John F Hall
I changed to R simply because I couldn't afford
SPSS. Without any background in programming the learning curve was extremely steep. I still struggle with things. If you want to run a frequency count of all your variables and obtain the respective percentages SPSS is way easier to use. Having said that R forces you to look more carefully at what variables to include in analyses. They are totally different beasts in many ways. The user forums are also very different. I think this is a major issue, asking an extremely naive question (and as a naive user), this can met with stony silence or rebuke, though some people on the R list have been enormously helpful. First impressions can make a big difference. Bob nAt 02:50 AM 9/05/2013, John F Hall wrote: >I too downloaded R. Forget it: too much >learning to be able to write sensible tutorials >or for students to learn enough in 13 hours to be able to do anything useful. > >I taught survey processing and analysis using >SPSS for 23 years from 1972 until I (early) >retired in 1992, and I still use it in my >website tutorials. My students got jobs: would >they with R? Tell the business managers that >(although in the UK the Deans in the >Polytechnics which became Universities in 1992 >were also part of corporate management). One of >my ex-researchers was once promoted over my head >by Stalinist senior management to be Director of >Research (aka Business Manager, Research): when >I repeated to her the late Angus Campbell’s >advice to me, “Never employ anyone whose job you >couldn’t take over if you had to.” she stormed off in a huff. > >I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: the >SPSS rot started when they went after the >business market and let marketing people act as >their agents. I appreciate that the success of >SPSSI was threatening the charitable status of >the University of Chicago, but once IBM took >over, academic users were doomed. IBM are only >ever, and always have been, interested in >profits: didn’t anyone tell you? That’s why so >many academic institutions are turning to Stata, >but will their students still get jobs? Tell >the Deans/Business Managers that as well. > >John F Hall (Mr) >[Retired academic survey researcher] > >Email: <mailto:[hidden email]>[hidden email] >Website: <http://www.surveyresearch.weebly.com>www.surveyresearch.weebly.com >Start >page: ><http://www.surveyresearch.weebly.com/spss-without-tears.html>www.surveyresearch.weebly.com/spss-without-tears.html > > > > > > > >From: SPSSX(r) Discussion >[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Dr. Thomas W. MacFarland >Sent: 08 May 2013 15:04 >To: [hidden email] >Subject: Re: R > >Stan and everyone else: > >SPSS is great software and I’ve been using it >since the mid-1980s when it was housed at the >University on a VAX machine, using vi as the >editor (No – I don’t think we need too many more >posts related to the traffic thread.). Separate >from the statistical analyses supported by SPSS, >the ctables module alone is a pearl without price. > >Saying that, I’ve also moved new projects over to R whenever possible. > >Why? > >Diversification is good, if nothing else for self-protection. > >I am concerned that SPSS will soon price itself >out of reach for many of us in higher education. > >Do you remember when Deans were the major >decision-makers in higher >education? Increasingly (at least here is the >U.S.), higher education has become more >corporate (even at the state schools and >not-for-profits) and we now have business >managers who have little to no classroom >experience influencing decision-making, and some >are now starting to question the high cost of SPSS license fees. > >So, both for administrative jobs as well as >classroom teaching, I’m moving more activities over to R. > >Is R good software since those who develop the >base package and external packages do not >receive a paycheck for their efforts? We all >have separate ideas, but I certainly respect >those who work with missionary zeal as opposed >to those who are only concerned about last >quarter’s profit statement, ship dates (think >dBase IV), and today’s stock price. > >Ultimately, however, the market will determine >the winners and losers, whether the product is expensive or free. > >If you need a brief introduction to R please >take a look at the videos listed below, even if they are slightly dated: > >Are You Ready for R - Open Source Software for Institutional Research ><https://tegr.it/y/ty2b>https://tegr.it/y/ty2b >Are You Ready for R - Background Information About R ><https://tegr.it/y/ty15>https://tegr.it/y/ty15 >Are You Ready for R - Orientation of This Training Session ><https://tegr.it/y/ty0v>https://tegr.it/y/ty0v >Are You Ready for R - Download R ><https://tegr.it/y/ty0n>https://tegr.it/y/ty0n >Are You Ready for R - Exposure to the R Interface ><https://tegr.it/y/ty0b>https://tegr.it/y/ty0b >Are You Ready for R - Use R in Interactive Mode ><https://tegr.it/y/txzj>https://tegr.it/y/txzj >Are You Ready for R - Use R Syntax in a .R Script File ><https://tegr.it/y/txz1>https://tegr.it/y/txz1 >Are You Ready for R - Import a .csv Spreadsheet-Type Data File into R ><https://tegr.it/y/txyv>https://tegr.it/y/txyv >Are You Ready for R - Organize the Data ><https://tegr.it/y/txyn>https://tegr.it/y/txyn >Are You Ready for R - Conduct a Visual Data Check ><https://tegr.it/y/txwf>https://tegr.it/y/txwf >Are You Ready for R - Supplemental R Packages ><https://tegr.it/y/txw6>https://tegr.it/y/txw6 >Are You Ready for R - Summary Descriptive Statistics ><https://tegr.it/y/txvx>https://tegr.it/y/txvx >Are You Ready for R - Breakout Descriptive Statistics ><https://tegr.it/y/txvt>https://tegr.it/y/txvt >Are You Ready for R - Use R for Student’s t-Test ><https://tegr.it/y/txvb>https://tegr.it/y/txvb >Are You Ready for R - Use R for Oneway Analysis of Variance (ANOVA) ><https://tegr.it/y/txux>https://tegr.it/y/txux >Are You Ready for R - Use R for Multivariate Analysis of Variance (MANOVA) ><https://tegr.it/y/txul>https://tegr.it/y/txul >Are You Ready for R - Use R for Correlation and Measures of Association ><https://tegr.it/y/txtj>https://tegr.it/y/txtj >Are You Ready for R - Prepare to Exit, Save, and Later Retrieve This R Session ><https://tegr.it/y/txrv>https://tegr.it/y/txrv >Are You Ready for R - Demonstrate Batch Processing with a Script File ><https://tegr.it/y/txrj>https://tegr.it/y/txrj > >Comment: The R tables package >(<http://cran.r-project.org/web/packages/tables/vignettes/tables.pdf>http://cran.r-project.org/web/packages/tables/vignettes/tables.pdf), >specifically the tables::tabular() function, >does not yet equal the SPSS ctables module, but >it is getting close. When that happens SPSS >will have an end-product rival that may be hard to hold back. > >Full Disclosure (and not a shameless plug): I >have a R-based text >(<http://www.springer.com/statistics/social+sciences+%26+law/book/978-1-4614-2133-7>http://www.springer.com/statistics/social+sciences+%26+law/book/978-1-4614-2133-7) >that is still available and a new text (R for >biostatistics) will be available before too long. > >Best wishes. > >Tom > > >---------- >Thomas W. MacFarland, Ed.D. >Senior Research Associate; Institutional Effectiveness and Associate Professor >Nova Southeastern University >Voice 954-262-5395 <mailto:[hidden email]>[hidden email] > > >-----Original Message----- >From: SPSSX(r) Discussion >[<mailto:[hidden email]>mailto:[hidden email]] >On Behalf Of David Marso >Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 3:57 AM >To: <mailto:[hidden email]>[hidden email] >Subject: Re: R > >AGAIN INTERSPERSED: > >Stan Gorodenski wrote > > On 5/7/2013 7:07 PM, Bruce Weaver wrote: > >> I bet you'd get some very interesting responses if you posted your > >> question > >> here: > >> > >> <http://r.789695.n4.nabble.com/>http://r.789695.n4.nabble.com/ > >> > > > > I am sure you are absolutely correct. :-) > > > > But, this raises another issue I have with R. The link you provide is > > a discussion group. I have come to dislike having to rely solely on > > discussion groups to get answers to questions. > > > > DMM: Well, there is always package documentation and various online > > training resources. > > > > In astronomy there is a > > new protocol called ASCOM. One has to rely completely on a discussion > > group to get answers to questions. As a result one has to deal with > > personalities and their willingness to help. > > > > DMM: I'll bet ASCOM has some sort of documentation. I don't > > personally know anything about it and am not interested enough in > > astronomy to bother researching the issue. > > Personalities are like A$$#@!%$ everyone has one. I for one am > > sometimes mistaken for an A$$#@!% due to my personality. Willingness > > to help is a crapshoot. If you have a question that maybe one person > > in the DG knows the answer, you might have a problem. > > OTOH: There is this mysterious element in the universe called > > reciprocity. Put in take out. > > People who frequently take but don't reciprocate get to know the > > A$$#@!% side of my personality. > > > > I get so tired of having to rephrase something. > > > > DMM: I get so tired of people who think they can rely on others > > InterNeTelepathy and ESPss skills to read their minds when they don't > > provide sufficient information to understand the issue much or less > > solve the problem. Phrase it explicitly with examples in the first > > place and there is not so much of a need to rephrase. Lately people > > in this group seem to think of it as a place to twitter their plights > > rather than carefully explicate the nature of the issue, what was > > tried, what failed, what came close, sample of data in/data out. > > Almost as though it is expected that the solvers here spend more time > > thinking about the issue than the OP (I am almost tempted to name some > > names). For these peeps I post one liners or > subject them to the Socratic method. > > > > BTW Stan: You are not guilty of such. Your posted questions here are > > typically well thought out and you take the effort to be clear and do > > the heavy lifting WRT RTFM and background research prior to posting. > > > > It is amazing how difficult communication can be at times. SPSS and > > Stata, in contrast, have manuals that come from the companies. I > > believe there are manuals for R, but they were not produced by a > > company and so may be limited in their scope. > > > > DMM: You seem to relish the comfort of 'companies'. I for one am > > exploring open source options at every opportunity! For example, I > > would rather use GIMP or ImageJ to do photo editing or generating my > > video art then shell out several hundred dollars for PhotoShop. > > Why would I spend a ton on upgrading M$ office when I can acquire > > OpenOffice or NeoOffice for FREE. > > Why would I dump $20+K on SPSS Modeller when I can DL Rapid Miner? > > List goes on and on! > > Yeah Stan, trust the 'companies'... They have your best interest and > > comfort at heart! > > > > I may be talking out > > of ignorance regarding R, but that is my impression. There are two > > extremes, ASCOM which totally relies on a discussion group, and SAS. > > It is incredible the number of manuals SAS has. The last time I > > checked about 12 years ago it would have taken about 2 or 3 feet of > > manuals, probably even more, if one wanted to be complete (that is, if > > one wants hard copies). > > > > DMM: AFAICK: you can likely find pretty in depth info by querying > > something as simple as R Manuals > > > <http://www.search.ask.com/web?q=R%20Manuals&o=15554&l=dis&qsrc=2871>http://www.search.ask.com/web?q=R%20Manuals&o=15554&l=dis&qsrc=2871 > > > > > > Stan > > > > > >> ;-) > >> > >> > >> > >> Stan Gorodenski wrote > >> > >>> A number of individuals highly recommend R. I do not have much > >>> inclination to switch to R (I had downloaded it about four years ago > >>> and didn't know where to go from there) for two reasons. As someone > >>> said, there is a steep learning curve. The other reason is that > >>> because R is freeware, I believe all the statistical procedures were > >>> written by users. Is this correct? If so, I feel more comfortable > >>> with a package like SPSS or Stata because there is a profit motive, > >>> and because there is a profit motive these companies have a definite > >>> interest in testing the product before release and correcting any > >>> errors after release. In other words, one can be more cerain the > >>> statistical results from the various procedures are correct. I do > >>> not think this can be said of R. Is this correct? > >>> Stan > >>> > >>> ===================== > >>> To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to > >>> > >> > >>> <mailto:LISTSERV@.UGA>LISTSERV@.UGA > >>> > >> > >>> (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave > >>> the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to > >>> manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ----- > >> -- > >> Bruce Weaver > >> > > > bweaver@ > > >> > <http://sites.google.com/a/lakeheadu.ca/bweaver/>http://sites.google.com/a/lakeheadu.ca/bweaver/ > >> > >> "When all else fails, RTFM." > >> > >> NOTE: My Hotmail account is not monitored regularly. > >> To send me an e-mail, please use the address shown above. > >> > >> -- > >> View this message in context: > >> > <http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/R-tp5720058p5720060.htm>http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/R-tp5720058p5720060.htm > >> l Sent from the SPSSX Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >> > >> ===================== > >> To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to > >> > > > <mailto:LISTSERV@.UGA>LISTSERV@.UGA > > > (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the > >> command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a > >> list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO > >> REFCARD > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > ===================== > > To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to > > > <mailto:LISTSERV@.UGA>LISTSERV@.UGA > > > (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the > > list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to > > manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD > > > > > >----- >Please reply to the list and not to my personal email. >Those desiring my consulting or training >services please feel free to email me. >--- >"Nolite dare sanctum canibus neque mittatis >margaritas vestras ante porcos ne forte conculcent eas pedibus suis." >Cum es damnatorum possederunt porcos iens ut >salire off sanguinum cliff in abyssum?" >-- >View this message in context: ><http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/R-tp5720058p5720067.html>http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/R-tp5720058p5720067.html >Sent from the SPSSX Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >===================== >To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a >message to ><mailto:[hidden email]>[hidden email] >(not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the >command. To leave the list, send the command >SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to manage >subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD ===================== To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD |
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Hi Bob, you might want to check out Rcmdr. Google to get installation notes. It's got an interface like what you would expect from a statistical package. But it is tricky to install and use. --Steve
PS At this moment that is exactly what I'm trying to do. Every time, at this University, my computer gets reimaged I have to reinstall all my additional programs. -----Original Message----- From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bob Green Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 5:02 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: R I changed to R simply because I couldn't afford SPSS. Without any background in programming the learning curve was extremely steep. I still struggle with things. If you want to run a frequency count of all your variables and obtain the respective percentages SPSS is way easier to use. Having said that R forces you to look more carefully at what variables to include in analyses. They are totally different beasts in many ways. The user forums are also very different. I think this is a major issue, asking an extremely naive question (and as a naive user), this can met with stony silence or rebuke, though some people on the R list have been enormously helpful. First impressions can make a big difference. Bob nAt 02:50 AM 9/05/2013, John F Hall wrote: >I too downloaded R. Forget it: too much learning to be able to write >sensible tutorials or for students to learn enough in 13 hours to be >able to do anything useful. > >I taught survey processing and analysis using SPSS for 23 years from >1972 until I (early) retired in 1992, and I still use it in my website >tutorials. My students got jobs: would they with R? Tell the business >managers that (although in the UK the Deans in the Polytechnics which >became Universities in 1992 were also part of corporate management). >One of my ex-researchers was once promoted over my head by Stalinist >senior management to be Director of Research (aka Business Manager, >Research): when I repeated to her the late Angus Campbell's advice to >me, "Never employ anyone whose job you couldn't take over if you had >to." she stormed off in a huff. > >I've said it before and I'll say it again: the SPSS rot started when >they went after the business market and let marketing people act as >their agents. I appreciate that the success of SPSSI was threatening >the charitable status of the University of Chicago, but once IBM took >over, academic users were doomed. IBM are only ever, and always have >been, interested in >profits: didn't anyone tell you? That's why so many academic >institutions are turning to Stata, but will their students still get >jobs? Tell the Deans/Business Managers that as well. > >John F Hall (Mr) >[Retired academic survey researcher] > >Email: <mailto:[hidden email]>[hidden email] >Website: ><http://www.surveyresearch.weebly.com>www.surveyresearch.weebly.com >Start >page: ><http://www.surveyresearch.weebly.com/spss-without-tears.html>www.surve >yresearch.weebly.com/spss-without-tears.html > > > > > > > >From: SPSSX(r) Discussion >[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Dr. Thomas W. MacFarland >Sent: 08 May 2013 15:04 >To: [hidden email] >Subject: Re: R > >Stan and everyone else: > >SPSS is great software and I've been using it since the mid-1980s when >it was housed at the University on a VAX machine, using vi as the >editor (No - I don't think we need too many more posts related to the >traffic thread.). Separate from the statistical analyses supported by >SPSS, the ctables module alone is a pearl without price. > >Saying that, I've also moved new projects over to R whenever possible. > >Why? > >Diversification is good, if nothing else for self-protection. > >I am concerned that SPSS will soon price itself out of reach for many >of us in higher education. > >Do you remember when Deans were the major decision-makers in higher >education? Increasingly (at least here is the U.S.), higher education >has become more corporate (even at the state schools and >not-for-profits) and we now have business managers who have little to >no classroom experience influencing decision-making, and some are now >starting to question the high cost of SPSS license fees. > >So, both for administrative jobs as well as classroom teaching, I'm >moving more activities over to R. > >Is R good software since those who develop the base package and >external packages do not receive a paycheck for their efforts? We all >have separate ideas, but I certainly respect those who work with >missionary zeal as opposed to those who are only concerned about last >quarter's profit statement, ship dates (think dBase IV), and today's >stock price. > >Ultimately, however, the market will determine the winners and losers, >whether the product is expensive or free. > >If you need a brief introduction to R please take a look at the videos >listed below, even if they are slightly dated: > >Are You Ready for R - Open Source Software for Institutional Research ><https://tegr.it/y/ty2b>https://tegr.it/y/ty2b >Are You Ready for R - Background Information About R ><https://tegr.it/y/ty15>https://tegr.it/y/ty15 >Are You Ready for R - Orientation of This Training Session ><https://tegr.it/y/ty0v>https://tegr.it/y/ty0v >Are You Ready for R - Download R ><https://tegr.it/y/ty0n>https://tegr.it/y/ty0n >Are You Ready for R - Exposure to the R Interface ><https://tegr.it/y/ty0b>https://tegr.it/y/ty0b >Are You Ready for R - Use R in Interactive Mode ><https://tegr.it/y/txzj>https://tegr.it/y/txzj >Are You Ready for R - Use R Syntax in a .R Script File ><https://tegr.it/y/txz1>https://tegr.it/y/txz1 >Are You Ready for R - Import a .csv Spreadsheet-Type Data File into R ><https://tegr.it/y/txyv>https://tegr.it/y/txyv >Are You Ready for R - Organize the Data ><https://tegr.it/y/txyn>https://tegr.it/y/txyn >Are You Ready for R - Conduct a Visual Data Check ><https://tegr.it/y/txwf>https://tegr.it/y/txwf >Are You Ready for R - Supplemental R Packages ><https://tegr.it/y/txw6>https://tegr.it/y/txw6 >Are You Ready for R - Summary Descriptive Statistics ><https://tegr.it/y/txvx>https://tegr.it/y/txvx >Are You Ready for R - Breakout Descriptive Statistics ><https://tegr.it/y/txvt>https://tegr.it/y/txvt >Are You Ready for R - Use R for Student's t-Test ><https://tegr.it/y/txvb>https://tegr.it/y/txvb >Are You Ready for R - Use R for Oneway Analysis of Variance (ANOVA) ><https://tegr.it/y/txux>https://tegr.it/y/txux >Are You Ready for R - Use R for Multivariate Analysis of Variance >(MANOVA) <https://tegr.it/y/txul>https://tegr.it/y/txul >Are You Ready for R - Use R for Correlation and Measures of Association ><https://tegr.it/y/txtj>https://tegr.it/y/txtj >Are You Ready for R - Prepare to Exit, Save, and Later Retrieve This R >Session <https://tegr.it/y/txrv>https://tegr.it/y/txrv >Are You Ready for R - Demonstrate Batch Processing with a Script File ><https://tegr.it/y/txrj>https://tegr.it/y/txrj > >Comment: The R tables package >(<http://cran.r-project.org/web/packages/tables/vignettes/tables.pdf>ht >tp://cran.r-project.org/web/packages/tables/vignettes/tables.pdf), >specifically the tables::tabular() function, does not yet equal the >SPSS ctables module, but it is getting close. When that happens SPSS >will have an end-product rival that may be hard to hold back. > >Full Disclosure (and not a shameless plug): I have a R-based text >(<http://www.springer.com/statistics/social+sciences+%26+law/book/978-1 >-4614-2133-7>http://www.springer.com/statistics/social+sciences+%26+law >/book/978-1-4614-2133-7) that is still available and a new text (R for >biostatistics) will be available before too long. > >Best wishes. > >Tom > > >---------- >Thomas W. MacFarland, Ed.D. >Senior Research Associate; Institutional Effectiveness and Associate >Professor Nova Southeastern University Voice 954-262-5395 ><mailto:[hidden email]>[hidden email] > > >-----Original Message----- >From: SPSSX(r) Discussion >[<mailto:[hidden email]>mailto:[hidden email]] >On Behalf Of David Marso >Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 3:57 AM >To: <mailto:[hidden email]>[hidden email] >Subject: Re: R > >AGAIN INTERSPERSED: > >Stan Gorodenski wrote > > On 5/7/2013 7:07 PM, Bruce Weaver wrote: > >> I bet you'd get some very interesting responses if you posted your > >> question > >> here: > >> > >> <http://r.789695.n4.nabble.com/>http://r.789695.n4.nabble.com/ > >> > > > > I am sure you are absolutely correct. :-) > > > > But, this raises another issue I have with R. The link you provide > > is a discussion group. I have come to dislike having to rely solely > > on discussion groups to get answers to questions. > > > > DMM: Well, there is always package documentation and various online > > training resources. > > > > In astronomy there is a > > new protocol called ASCOM. One has to rely completely on a > > discussion group to get answers to questions. As a result one has to > > deal with personalities and their willingness to help. > > > > DMM: I'll bet ASCOM has some sort of documentation. I don't > > personally know anything about it and am not interested enough in > > astronomy to bother researching the issue. > > Personalities are like A$$#@!%$ everyone has one. I for one am > > sometimes mistaken for an A$$#@!% due to my personality. > > Willingness to help is a crapshoot. If you have a question that > > maybe one person in the DG knows the answer, you might have a problem. > > OTOH: There is this mysterious element in the universe called > > reciprocity. Put in take out. > > People who frequently take but don't reciprocate get to know the > > A$$#@!% side of my personality. > > > > I get so tired of having to rephrase something. > > > > DMM: I get so tired of people who think they can rely on others > > InterNeTelepathy and ESPss skills to read their minds when they > > don't provide sufficient information to understand the issue much or > > less solve the problem. Phrase it explicitly with examples in the > > first place and there is not so much of a need to rephrase. Lately > > people in this group seem to think of it as a place to twitter their > > plights rather than carefully explicate the nature of the issue, > > what was tried, what failed, what came close, sample of data in/data out. > > Almost as though it is expected that the solvers here spend more > > time thinking about the issue than the OP (I am almost tempted to > > name some names). For these peeps I post one liners or > subject them to the Socratic method. > > > > BTW Stan: You are not guilty of such. Your posted questions here > > are typically well thought out and you take the effort to be clear > > and do the heavy lifting WRT RTFM and background research prior to posting. > > > > It is amazing how difficult communication can be at times. SPSS and > > Stata, in contrast, have manuals that come from the companies. I > > believe there are manuals for R, but they were not produced by a > > company and so may be limited in their scope. > > > > DMM: You seem to relish the comfort of 'companies'. I for one am > > exploring open source options at every opportunity! For example, I > > would rather use GIMP or ImageJ to do photo editing or generating my > > video art then shell out several hundred dollars for PhotoShop. > > Why would I spend a ton on upgrading M$ office when I can acquire > > OpenOffice or NeoOffice for FREE. > > Why would I dump $20+K on SPSS Modeller when I can DL Rapid Miner? > > List goes on and on! > > Yeah Stan, trust the 'companies'... They have your best interest and > > comfort at heart! > > > > I may be talking out > > of ignorance regarding R, but that is my impression. There are two > > extremes, ASCOM which totally relies on a discussion group, and SAS. > > It is incredible the number of manuals SAS has. The last time I > > checked about 12 years ago it would have taken about 2 or 3 feet of > > manuals, probably even more, if one wanted to be complete (that is, > > if one wants hard copies). > > > > DMM: AFAICK: you can likely find pretty in depth info by querying > > something as simple as R Manuals > > > <http://www.search.ask.com/web?q=R%20Manuals&o=15554&l=dis&qsrc=2871>h > ttp://www.search.ask.com/web?q=R%20Manuals&o=15554&l=dis&qsrc=2871 > > > > > > Stan > > > > > >> ;-) > >> > >> > >> > >> Stan Gorodenski wrote > >> > >>> A number of individuals highly recommend R. I do not have much > >>> inclination to switch to R (I had downloaded it about four years > >>> ago and didn't know where to go from there) for two reasons. As > >>> someone said, there is a steep learning curve. The other reason is > >>> that because R is freeware, I believe all the statistical > >>> procedures were written by users. Is this correct? If so, I feel > >>> more comfortable with a package like SPSS or Stata because there > >>> is a profit motive, and because there is a profit motive these > >>> companies have a definite interest in testing the product before > >>> release and correcting any errors after release. In other words, > >>> one can be more cerain the statistical results from the various > >>> procedures are correct. I do not think this can be said of R. Is this correct? > >>> Stan > >>> > >>> ===================== > >>> To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to > >>> > >> > >>> <mailto:LISTSERV@.UGA>LISTSERV@.UGA > >>> > >> > >>> (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave > >>> the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands > >>> to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ----- > >> -- > >> Bruce Weaver > >> > > > bweaver@ > > >> > <http://sites.google.com/a/lakeheadu.ca/bweaver/>http://sites.google.c > om/a/lakeheadu.ca/bweaver/ > >> > >> "When all else fails, RTFM." > >> > >> NOTE: My Hotmail account is not monitored regularly. > >> To send me an e-mail, please use the address shown above. > >> > >> -- > >> View this message in context: > >> > <http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/R-tp5720058p5720060.htm > >http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/R-tp5720058p5720060.htm > >> l Sent from the SPSSX Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >> > >> ===================== > >> To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to > >> > > > <mailto:LISTSERV@.UGA>LISTSERV@.UGA > > > (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the > >> command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a > >> list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO > >> REFCARD > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > ===================== > > To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to > > > <mailto:LISTSERV@.UGA>LISTSERV@.UGA > > > (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave > > the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to > > manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD > > > > > >----- >Please reply to the list and not to my personal email. >Those desiring my consulting or training services please feel free to >email me. >--- >"Nolite dare sanctum canibus neque mittatis margaritas vestras ante >porcos ne forte conculcent eas pedibus suis." >Cum es damnatorum possederunt porcos iens ut salire off sanguinum cliff >in abyssum?" >-- >View this message in context: ><http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/R-tp5720058p5720067.html >>http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/R-tp5720058p5720067.html >Sent from the SPSSX Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >===================== >To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to ><mailto:[hidden email]>[hidden email] >(not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the >list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to manage >subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD ===================== To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD ===================== To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD |
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Hi Stephen,
Why do you find Rcmdr tricky to install? options(repos=structure(c(CRAN="http://cran.xl-mirror.nl" ))) # if you don want to select a mirror install.packages(c("Rcmdr"), dependencies=TRUE) If you download all the uninstalled packages (.zip) you need to a network location, you can use the "repo" argument to download it from there. If I understood it correctly, you can set the environment R_LIBS_USER to a netwrok location that does not get wiped. Then, when you got a new image, you just need to set that variable (Win7: setx R_LIBS_USER=\\myserver\myshare\myblah, next time R starts up, it will look there for the installed packages. At first instance, R cmdr seems promising, but in the end I have rarely used it. IIRC, writing additional functionality (plugins) also requires TCL knowledge. Regards, Albert-Jan ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salbod, Mr. Stephen" <[hidden email]> > To: [hidden email] > Cc: > Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2013 1:32 AM > Subject: Re: [SPSSX-L] R > > Hi Bob, you might want to check out Rcmdr. Google to get installation notes. > It's got an interface like what you would expect from a statistical > package. But it is tricky to install and use. --Steve > > > PS At this moment that is exactly what I'm trying to do. Every time, at this > University, my computer gets reimaged I have to reinstall all my additional > programs. > > -----Original Message----- > From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bob > Green > Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 5:02 PM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: R > > I changed to R simply because I couldn't afford SPSS. Without any background > in programming the learning curve was extremely steep. I still struggle with > things. If you want to run a frequency count of all your variables and obtain > the respective percentages SPSS is way easier to use. Having said that R forces > you to look more carefully at what variables to include in analyses. > > They are totally different beasts in many ways. > > The user forums are also very different. I think this is a major issue, asking > an extremely naive question (and as a naive user), this can met with stony > silence or rebuke, though some people on the R list have been enormously > helpful. First impressions can make a big difference. > > > Bob > > > > > > > nAt 02:50 AM 9/05/2013, John F Hall wrote: >> I too downloaded R. Forget it: too much learning to be able to write >> sensible tutorials or for students to learn enough in 13 hours to be >> able to do anything useful. >> >> I taught survey processing and analysis using SPSS for 23 years from >> 1972 until I (early) retired in 1992, and I still use it in my website >> tutorials. My students got jobs: would they with R? Tell the business >> managers that (although in the UK the Deans in the Polytechnics which >> became Universities in 1992 were also part of corporate management). >> One of my ex-researchers was once promoted over my head by Stalinist >> senior management to be Director of Research (aka Business Manager, >> Research): when I repeated to her the late Angus Campbell's advice to >> me, "Never employ anyone whose job you couldn't take over if you > had >> to." she stormed off in a huff. >> >> I've said it before and I'll say it again: the SPSS rot started when >> they went after the business market and let marketing people act as >> their agents. I appreciate that the success of SPSSI was threatening >> the charitable status of the University of Chicago, but once IBM took >> over, academic users were doomed. IBM are only ever, and always have >> been, interested in >> profits: didn't anyone tell you? That's why so many academic >> institutions are turning to Stata, but will their students still get >> jobs? Tell the Deans/Business Managers that as well. >> >> John F Hall (Mr) >> [Retired academic survey researcher] >> >> Email: <mailto:[hidden email]>[hidden email] >> Website: >> <http://www.surveyresearch.weebly.com>www.surveyresearch.weebly.com >> Start >> page: >> <http://www.surveyresearch.weebly.com/spss-without-tears.html>www.surve >> yresearch.weebly.com/spss-without-tears.html >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: SPSSX(r) Discussion >> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Dr. Thomas W. MacFarland >> Sent: 08 May 2013 15:04 >> To: [hidden email] >> Subject: Re: R >> >> Stan and everyone else: >> >> SPSS is great software and I've been using it since the mid-1980s when >> it was housed at the University on a VAX machine, using vi as the >> editor (No - I don't think we need too many more posts related to the >> traffic thread.). Separate from the statistical analyses supported by >> SPSS, the ctables module alone is a pearl without price. >> >> Saying that, I've also moved new projects over to R whenever possible. >> >> Why? >> >> Diversification is good, if nothing else for self-protection. >> >> I am concerned that SPSS will soon price itself out of reach for many >> of us in higher education. >> >> Do you remember when Deans were the major decision-makers in higher >> education? Increasingly (at least here is the U.S.), higher education >> has become more corporate (even at the state schools and >> not-for-profits) and we now have business managers who have little to >> no classroom experience influencing decision-making, and some are now >> starting to question the high cost of SPSS license fees. >> >> So, both for administrative jobs as well as classroom teaching, I'm >> moving more activities over to R. >> >> Is R good software since those who develop the base package and >> external packages do not receive a paycheck for their efforts? We all >> have separate ideas, but I certainly respect those who work with >> missionary zeal as opposed to those who are only concerned about last >> quarter's profit statement, ship dates (think dBase IV), and today's >> stock price. >> >> Ultimately, however, the market will determine the winners and losers, >> whether the product is expensive or free. >> >> If you need a brief introduction to R please take a look at the videos >> listed below, even if they are slightly dated: >> >> Are You Ready for R - Open Source Software for Institutional Research >> <https://tegr.it/y/ty2b>https://tegr.it/y/ty2b >> Are You Ready for R - Background Information About R >> <https://tegr.it/y/ty15>https://tegr.it/y/ty15 >> Are You Ready for R - Orientation of This Training Session >> <https://tegr.it/y/ty0v>https://tegr.it/y/ty0v >> Are You Ready for R - Download R >> <https://tegr.it/y/ty0n>https://tegr.it/y/ty0n >> Are You Ready for R - Exposure to the R Interface >> <https://tegr.it/y/ty0b>https://tegr.it/y/ty0b >> Are You Ready for R - Use R in Interactive Mode >> <https://tegr.it/y/txzj>https://tegr.it/y/txzj >> Are You Ready for R - Use R Syntax in a .R Script File >> <https://tegr.it/y/txz1>https://tegr.it/y/txz1 >> Are You Ready for R - Import a .csv Spreadsheet-Type Data File into R >> <https://tegr.it/y/txyv>https://tegr.it/y/txyv >> Are You Ready for R - Organize the Data >> <https://tegr.it/y/txyn>https://tegr.it/y/txyn >> Are You Ready for R - Conduct a Visual Data Check >> <https://tegr.it/y/txwf>https://tegr.it/y/txwf >> Are You Ready for R - Supplemental R Packages >> <https://tegr.it/y/txw6>https://tegr.it/y/txw6 >> Are You Ready for R - Summary Descriptive Statistics >> <https://tegr.it/y/txvx>https://tegr.it/y/txvx >> Are You Ready for R - Breakout Descriptive Statistics >> <https://tegr.it/y/txvt>https://tegr.it/y/txvt >> Are You Ready for R - Use R for Student's t-Test >> <https://tegr.it/y/txvb>https://tegr.it/y/txvb >> Are You Ready for R - Use R for Oneway Analysis of Variance (ANOVA) >> <https://tegr.it/y/txux>https://tegr.it/y/txux >> Are You Ready for R - Use R for Multivariate Analysis of Variance >> (MANOVA) <https://tegr.it/y/txul>https://tegr.it/y/txul >> Are You Ready for R - Use R for Correlation and Measures of Association >> <https://tegr.it/y/txtj>https://tegr.it/y/txtj >> Are You Ready for R - Prepare to Exit, Save, and Later Retrieve This R >> Session <https://tegr.it/y/txrv>https://tegr.it/y/txrv >> Are You Ready for R - Demonstrate Batch Processing with a Script File >> <https://tegr.it/y/txrj>https://tegr.it/y/txrj >> >> Comment: The R tables package >> (<http://cran.r-project.org/web/packages/tables/vignettes/tables.pdf>ht >> tp://cran.r-project.org/web/packages/tables/vignettes/tables.pdf), >> specifically the tables::tabular() function, does not yet equal the >> SPSS ctables module, but it is getting close. When that happens SPSS >> will have an end-product rival that may be hard to hold back. >> >> Full Disclosure (and not a shameless plug): I have a R-based text >> (<http://www.springer.com/statistics/social+sciences+%26+law/book/978-1 >> -4614-2133-7>http://www.springer.com/statistics/social+sciences+%26+law >> /book/978-1-4614-2133-7) that is still available and a new text (R for >> biostatistics) will be available before too long. >> >> Best wishes. >> >> Tom >> >> >> ---------- >> Thomas W. MacFarland, Ed.D. >> Senior Research Associate; Institutional Effectiveness and Associate >> Professor Nova Southeastern University Voice 954-262-5395 >> <mailto:[hidden email]>[hidden email] >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: SPSSX(r) Discussion >> [<mailto:[hidden email]>mailto:[hidden email]] >> On Behalf Of David Marso >> Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 3:57 AM >> To: <mailto:[hidden email]>[hidden email] >> Subject: Re: R >> >> AGAIN INTERSPERSED: >> >> Stan Gorodenski wrote >> > On 5/7/2013 7:07 PM, Bruce Weaver wrote: >> >> I bet you'd get some very interesting responses if you posted > your >> >> question >> >> here: >> >> >> >> > <http://r.789695.n4.nabble.com/>http://r.789695.n4.nabble.com/ >> >> >> > >> > I am sure you are absolutely correct. :-) >> > >> > But, this raises another issue I have with R. The link you provide >> > is a discussion group. I have come to dislike having to rely solely >> > on discussion groups to get answers to questions. >> > >> > DMM: Well, there is always package documentation and various online >> > training resources. >> > >> > In astronomy there is a >> > new protocol called ASCOM. One has to rely completely on a >> > discussion group to get answers to questions. As a result one has to >> > deal with personalities and their willingness to help. >> > >> > DMM: I'll bet ASCOM has some sort of documentation. I don't >> > personally know anything about it and am not interested enough in >> > astronomy to bother researching the issue. >> > Personalities are like A$$#@!%$ everyone has one. I for one am >> > sometimes mistaken for an A$$#@!% due to my personality. >> > Willingness to help is a crapshoot. If you have a question that >> > maybe one person in the DG knows the answer, you might have a problem. >> > OTOH: There is this mysterious element in the universe called >> > reciprocity. Put in take out. >> > People who frequently take but don't reciprocate get to know the >> > A$$#@!% side of my personality. >> > >> > I get so tired of having to rephrase something. >> > >> > DMM: I get so tired of people who think they can rely on others >> > InterNeTelepathy and ESPss skills to read their minds when they >> > don't provide sufficient information to understand the issue much > or >> > less solve the problem. Phrase it explicitly with examples in the >> > first place and there is not so much of a need to rephrase. Lately >> > people in this group seem to think of it as a place to twitter their >> > plights rather than carefully explicate the nature of the issue, >> > what was tried, what failed, what came close, sample of data in/data > out. >> > Almost as though it is expected that the solvers here spend more >> > time thinking about the issue than the OP (I am almost tempted to >> > name some names). For these peeps I post one liners or >> subject them to the Socratic method. >> > >> > BTW Stan: You are not guilty of such. Your posted questions here >> > are typically well thought out and you take the effort to be clear >> > and do the heavy lifting WRT RTFM and background research prior to > posting. >> > >> > It is amazing how difficult communication can be at times. SPSS and >> > Stata, in contrast, have manuals that come from the companies. I >> > believe there are manuals for R, but they were not produced by a >> > company and so may be limited in their scope. >> > >> > DMM: You seem to relish the comfort of 'companies'. I for > one am >> > exploring open source options at every opportunity! For example, I >> > would rather use GIMP or ImageJ to do photo editing or generating my >> > video art then shell out several hundred dollars for PhotoShop. >> > Why would I spend a ton on upgrading M$ office when I can acquire >> > OpenOffice or NeoOffice for FREE. >> > Why would I dump $20+K on SPSS Modeller when I can DL Rapid Miner? >> > List goes on and on! >> > Yeah Stan, trust the 'companies'... They have your best > interest and >> > comfort at heart! >> > >> > I may be talking out >> > of ignorance regarding R, but that is my impression. There are two >> > extremes, ASCOM which totally relies on a discussion group, and SAS. >> > It is incredible the number of manuals SAS has. The last time I >> > checked about 12 years ago it would have taken about 2 or 3 feet of >> > manuals, probably even more, if one wanted to be complete (that is, >> > if one wants hard copies). >> > >> > DMM: AFAICK: you can likely find pretty in depth info by querying >> > something as simple as R Manuals >> > >> > <http://www.search.ask.com/web?q=R%20Manuals&o=15554&l=dis&qsrc=2871>h >> > ttp://www.search.ask.com/web?q=R%20Manuals&o=15554&l=dis&qsrc=2871 >> > >> > >> > Stan >> > >> > >> >> ;-) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Stan Gorodenski wrote >> >> >> >>> A number of individuals highly recommend R. I do not have much >> >>> inclination to switch to R (I had downloaded it about four > years >> >>> ago and didn't know where to go from there) for two > reasons. As >> >>> someone said, there is a steep learning curve. The other > reason is >> >>> that because R is freeware, I believe all the statistical >> >>> procedures were written by users. Is this correct? If so, I > feel >> >>> more comfortable with a package like SPSS or Stata because > there >> >>> is a profit motive, and because there is a profit motive these >> >>> companies have a definite interest in testing the product > before >> >>> release and correcting any errors after release. In other > words, >> >>> one can be more cerain the statistical results from the > various >> >>> procedures are correct. I do not think this can be said of R. > Is this correct? >> >>> Stan >> >>> >> >>> ===================== >> >>> To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to >> >>> >> >> >> >>> <mailto:LISTSERV@.UGA>LISTSERV@.UGA >> >>> >> >> >> >>> (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To > leave >> >>> the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of > commands >> >>> to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- >> >> -- >> >> Bruce Weaver >> >> >> >> > bweaver@ >> >> >> >> > <http://sites.google.com/a/lakeheadu.ca/bweaver/>http://sites.google.c >> om/a/lakeheadu.ca/bweaver/ >> >> >> >> "When all else fails, RTFM." >> >> >> >> NOTE: My Hotmail account is not monitored regularly. >> >> To send me an e-mail, please use the address shown above. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> View this message in context: >> >> >> <http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/R-tp5720058p5720060.htm >> >http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/R-tp5720058p5720060.htm >> >> l Sent from the SPSSX Discussion mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. >> >> >> >> ===================== >> >> To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to >> >> >> >> > <mailto:LISTSERV@.UGA>LISTSERV@.UGA >> >> > (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the >> >> command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a >> >> list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO >> >> REFCARD >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > ===================== >> > To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to >> >> > <mailto:LISTSERV@.UGA>LISTSERV@.UGA >> >> > (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave >> > the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to >> > manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- >> Please reply to the list and not to my personal email. >> Those desiring my consulting or training services please feel free to >> email me. >> --- >> "Nolite dare sanctum canibus neque mittatis margaritas vestras ante >> porcos ne forte conculcent eas pedibus suis." >> Cum es damnatorum possederunt porcos iens ut salire off sanguinum cliff >> in abyssum?" >> -- >> View this message in context: >> <http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/R-tp5720058p5720067.html >>> http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/R-tp5720058p5720067.html >> Sent from the SPSSX Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >> ===================== >> To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to >> <mailto:[hidden email]>[hidden email] >> (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the >> list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to manage >> subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD > > ===================== > To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to > [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the > command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of > commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD > > ===================== > To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to > [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the > command. To leave the list, send the command > SIGNOFF SPSSX-L > For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command > INFO REFCARD > ===================== To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD |
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In reply to this post by Salbod
And there's Deducer. Here's a YouTube video on it. ~~~~~~~~~~~ Scott R Millis, PhD, ABPP, CStat, PStat® Board Certified in Clinical Neuropsychology, Clinical Psychology, & Rehabilitation Psychology Professor Wayne State University School of Medicine Email: [hidden email] Email: [hidden email] Tel: 313-993-8085 From: "Salbod, Mr. Stephen" <[hidden email]> To: [hidden email] Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2013 7:32 PM Subject: Re: R Hi Bob, you might want to check out Rcmdr. Google to get installation notes. It's got an interface like what you would expect from a statistical package. But it is tricky to install and use. --Steve PS At this moment that is exactly what I'm trying to do. Every time, at this University, my computer gets reimaged I have to reinstall all my additional programs. -----Original Message----- From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bob Green Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 5:02 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: R I changed to R simply because I couldn't afford SPSS. Without any background in programming the learning curve was extremely steep. I still struggle with things. If you want to run a frequency count of all your variables and obtain the respective percentages SPSS is way easier to use. Having said that R forces you to look more carefully at what variables to include in analyses. They are totally different beasts in many ways. The user forums are also very different. I think this is a major issue, asking an extremely naive question (and as a naive user), this can met with stony silence or rebuke, though some people on the R list have been enormously helpful. First impressions can make a big difference. Bob nAt 02:50 AM 9/05/2013, John F Hall wrote: >I too downloaded R. Forget it: too much learning to be able to write >sensible tutorials or for students to learn enough in 13 hours to be >able to do anything useful. > >I taught survey processing and analysis using SPSS for 23 years from >1972 until I (early) retired in 1992, and I still use it in my website >tutorials. My students got jobs: would they with R? Tell the business >managers that (although in the UK the Deans in the Polytechnics which >became Universities in 1992 were also part of corporate management). >One of my ex-researchers was once promoted over my head by Stalinist >senior management to be Director of Research (aka Business Manager, >Research): when I repeated to her the late Angus Campbell's advice to >me, "Never employ anyone whose job you couldn't take over if you had >to." she stormed off in a huff. > >I've said it before and I'll say it again: the SPSS rot started when >they went after the business market and let marketing people act as >their agents. I appreciate that the success of SPSSI was threatening >the charitable status of the University of Chicago, but once IBM took >over, academic users were doomed. IBM are only ever, and always have >been, interested in >profits: didn't anyone tell you? That's why so many academic >institutions are turning to Stata, but will their students still get >jobs? Tell the Deans/Business Managers that as well. > >John F Hall (Mr) >[Retired academic survey researcher] > >Email: <mailto:[hidden email]>[hidden email] >Website: ><http://www.surveyresearch.weebly.com>www.surveyresearch.weebly.com >Start >page: ><http://www.surveyresearch.weebly.com/spss-without-tears.html>www.surve >yresearch.weebly.com/spss-without-tears.html > > > > > > > >From: SPSSX(r) Discussion >[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Dr. Thomas W. MacFarland >Sent: 08 May 2013 15:04 >To: [hidden email] >Subject: Re: R > >Stan and everyone else: > >SPSS is great software and I've been using it since the mid-1980s when >it was housed at the University on a VAX machine, using vi as the >editor (No - I don't think we need too many more posts related to the >traffic thread.). Separate from the statistical analyses supported by >SPSS, the ctables module alone is a pearl without price. > >Saying that, I've also moved new projects over to R whenever possible. > >Why? > >Diversification is good, if nothing else for self-protection. > >I am concerned that SPSS will soon price itself out of reach for many >of us in higher education. > >Do you remember when Deans were the major decision-makers in higher >education? Increasingly (at least here is the U.S.), higher education >has become more corporate (even at the state schools and >not-for-profits) and we now have business managers who have little to >no classroom experience influencing decision-making, and some are now >starting to question the high cost of SPSS license fees. > >So, both for administrative jobs as well as classroom teaching, I'm >moving more activities over to R. > >Is R good software since those who develop the base package and >external packages do not receive a paycheck for their efforts? We all >have separate ideas, but I certainly respect those who work with >missionary zeal as opposed to those who are only concerned about last >quarter's profit statement, ship dates (think dBase IV), and today's >stock price. > >Ultimately, however, the market will determine the winners and losers, >whether the product is expensive or free. > >If you need a brief introduction to R please take a look at the videos >listed below, even if they are slightly dated: > >Are You Ready for R - Open Source Software for Institutional Research ><https://tegr.it/y/ty2b>https://tegr.it/y/ty2b >Are You Ready for R - Background Information About R ><https://tegr.it/y/ty15>https://tegr.it/y/ty15 >Are You Ready for R - Orientation of This Training Session ><https://tegr.it/y/ty0v>https://tegr.it/y/ty0v >Are You Ready for R - Download R ><https://tegr.it/y/ty0n>https://tegr.it/y/ty0n >Are You Ready for R - Exposure to the R Interface ><https://tegr.it/y/ty0b>https://tegr.it/y/ty0b >Are You Ready for R - Use R in Interactive Mode ><https://tegr.it/y/txzj>https://tegr.it/y/txzj >Are You Ready for R - Use R Syntax in a .R Script File ><https://tegr.it/y/txz1>https://tegr.it/y/txz1 >Are You Ready for R - Import a .csv Spreadsheet-Type Data File into R ><https://tegr.it/y/txyv>https://tegr.it/y/txyv >Are You Ready for R - Organize the Data ><https://tegr.it/y/txyn>https://tegr.it/y/txyn >Are You Ready for R - Conduct a Visual Data Check ><https://tegr.it/y/txwf>https://tegr.it/y/txwf >Are You Ready for R - Supplemental R Packages ><https://tegr.it/y/txw6>https://tegr.it/y/txw6 >Are You Ready for R - Summary Descriptive Statistics ><https://tegr.it/y/txvx>https://tegr.it/y/txvx >Are You Ready for R - Breakout Descriptive Statistics ><https://tegr.it/y/txvt>https://tegr.it/y/txvt >Are You Ready for R - Use R for Student's t-Test ><https://tegr.it/y/txvb>https://tegr.it/y/txvb >Are You Ready for R - Use R for Oneway Analysis of Variance (ANOVA) ><https://tegr.it/y/txux>https://tegr.it/y/txux >Are You Ready for R - Use R for Multivariate Analysis of Variance >(MANOVA) <https://tegr.it/y/txul>https://tegr.it/y/txul >Are You Ready for R - Use R for Correlation and Measures of Association ><https://tegr.it/y/txtj>https://tegr.it/y/txtj >Are You Ready for R - Prepare to Exit, Save, and Later Retrieve This R >Session <https://tegr.it/y/txrv>https://tegr.it/y/txrv >Are You Ready for R - Demonstrate Batch Processing with a Script File ><https://tegr.it/y/txrj>https://tegr.it/y/txrj > >Comment: The R tables package >(<http://cran.r-project.org/web/packages/tables/vignettes/tables.pdf>ht >tp://cran.r-project.org/web/packages/tables/vignettes/tables.pdf), >specifically the tables::tabular() function, does not yet equal the >SPSS ctables module, but it is getting close. When that happens SPSS >will have an end-product rival that may be hard to hold back. > >Full Disclosure (and not a shameless plug): I have a R-based text >(<http://www.springer.com/statistics/social+sciences+%26+law/book/978-1 >-4614-2133-7>http://www.springer.com/statistics/social+sciences+%26+law >/book/978-1-4614-2133-7) that is still available and a new text (R for >biostatistics) will be available before too long. > >Best wishes. > >Tom > > >---------- >Thomas W. MacFarland, Ed.D. >Senior Research Associate; Institutional Effectiveness and Associate >Professor Nova Southeastern University Voice 954-262-5395 ><mailto:[hidden email]>[hidden email] > > >-----Original Message----- >From: SPSSX(r) Discussion >[<mailto:[hidden email]>mailto:[hidden email]] >On Behalf Of David Marso >Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 3:57 AM >To: <mailto:[hidden email]>[hidden email] >Subject: Re: R > >AGAIN INTERSPERSED: > >Stan Gorodenski wrote > > On 5/7/2013 7:07 PM, Bruce Weaver wrote: > >> I bet you'd get some very interesting responses if you posted your > >> question > >> here: > >> > >> <http://r.789695.n4.nabble.com/>http://r.789695.n4.nabble.com/ > >> > > > > I am sure you are absolutely correct. :-) > > > > But, this raises another issue I have with R. The link you provide > > is a discussion group. I have come to dislike having to rely solely > > on discussion groups to get answers to questions. > > > > DMM: Well, there is always package documentation and various online > > training resources. > > > > In astronomy there is a > > new protocol called ASCOM. One has to rely completely on a > > discussion group to get answers to questions. As a result one has to > > deal with personalities and their willingness to help. > > > > DMM: I'll bet ASCOM has some sort of documentation. I don't > > personally know anything about it and am not interested enough in > > astronomy to bother researching the issue. > > Personalities are like A$$#@!%$ everyone has one. I for one am > > sometimes mistaken for an A$$#@!% due to my personality. > > Willingness to help is a crapshoot. If you have a question that > > maybe one person in the DG knows the answer, you might have a problem. > > OTOH: There is this mysterious element in the universe called > > reciprocity. Put in take out. > > People who frequently take but don't reciprocate get to know the > > A$$#@!% side of my personality. > > > > I get so tired of having to rephrase something. > > > > DMM: I get so tired of people who think they can rely on others > > InterNeTelepathy and ESPss skills to read their minds when they > > don't provide sufficient information to understand the issue much or > > less solve the problem. Phrase it explicitly with examples in the > > first place and there is not so much of a need to rephrase. Lately > > people in this group seem to think of it as a place to twitter their > > plights rather than carefully explicate the nature of the issue, > > what was tried, what failed, what came close, sample of data in/data out. > > Almost as though it is expected that the solvers here spend more > > time thinking about the issue than the OP (I am almost tempted to > > name some names). For these peeps I post one liners or > subject them to the Socratic method. > > > > BTW Stan: You are not guilty of such. Your posted questions here > > are typically well thought out and you take the effort to be clear > > and do the heavy lifting WRT RTFM and background research prior to posting. > > > > It is amazing how difficult communication can be at times. SPSS and > > Stata, in contrast, have manuals that come from the companies. I > > believe there are manuals for R, but they were not produced by a > > company and so may be limited in their scope. > > > > DMM: You seem to relish the comfort of 'companies'. I for one am > > exploring open source options at every opportunity! For example, I > > would rather use GIMP or ImageJ to do photo editing or generating my > > video art then shell out several hundred dollars for PhotoShop. > > Why would I spend a ton on upgrading M$ office when I can acquire > > OpenOffice or NeoOffice for FREE. > > Why would I dump $20+K on SPSS Modeller when I can DL Rapid Miner? > > List goes on and on! > > Yeah Stan, trust the 'companies'... They have your best interest and > > comfort at heart! > > > > I may be talking out > > of ignorance regarding R, but that is my impression. There are two > > extremes, ASCOM which totally relies on a discussion group, and SAS. > > It is incredible the number of manuals SAS has. The last time I > > checked about 12 years ago it would have taken about 2 or 3 feet of > > manuals, probably even more, if one wanted to be complete (that is, > > if one wants hard copies). > > > > DMM: AFAICK: you can likely find pretty in depth info by querying > > something as simple as R Manuals > > > <http://www.search.ask.com/web?q=R%20Manuals&o=15554&l=dis&qsrc=2871>h > ttp://www.search.ask.com/web?q=R%20Manuals&o=15554&l=dis&qsrc=2871 > > > > > > Stan > > > > > >> ;-) > >> > >> > >> > >> Stan Gorodenski wrote > >> > >>> A number of individuals highly recommend R. I do not have much > >>> inclination to switch to R (I had downloaded it about four years > >>> ago and didn't know where to go from there) for two reasons. As > >>> someone said, there is a steep learning curve. The other reason is > >>> that because R is freeware, I believe all the statistical > >>> procedures were written by users. Is this correct? If so, I feel > >>> more comfortable with a package like SPSS or Stata because there > >>> is a profit motive, and because there is a profit motive these > >>> companies have a definite interest in testing the product before > >>> release and correcting any errors after release. In other words, > >>> one can be more cerain the statistical results from the various > >>> procedures are correct. I do not think this can be said of R. Is this correct? > >>> Stan > >>> > >>> ===================== > >>> To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to > >>> > >> > >>> <mailto:[hidden email]>[hidden email] > >>> > >> > >>> (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave > >>> the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands > >>> to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ----- > >> -- > >> Bruce Weaver > >> > > > bweaver@ > > >> > <http://sites.google.com/a/lakeheadu.ca/bweaver/>http://sites.google.c > om/a/lakeheadu.ca/bweaver/ > >> > >> "When all else fails, RTFM." > >> > >> NOTE: My Hotmail account is not monitored regularly. > >> To send me an e-mail, please use the address shown above. > >> > >> -- > >> View this message in context: > >> > <http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/R-tp5720058p5720060.htm > >http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/R-tp5720058p5720060.htm > >> l Sent from the SPSSX Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >> > >> ===================== > >> To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to > >> > > > <mailto:[hidden email]>[hidden email] > > > (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the > >> command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a > >> list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO > >> REFCARD > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > ===================== > > To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to > > > <mailto:[hidden email]>[hidden email] > > > (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave > > the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to > > manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD > > > > > >----- >Please reply to the list and not to my personal email. >Those desiring my consulting or training services please feel free to >email me. >--- >"Nolite dare sanctum canibus neque mittatis margaritas vestras ante >porcos ne forte conculcent eas pedibus suis." >Cum es damnatorum possederunt porcos iens ut salire off sanguinum cliff >in abyssum?" >-- >View this message in context: ><http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/R-tp5720058p5720067.html >>http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/R-tp5720058p5720067.html >Sent from the SPSSX Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >===================== >To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to ><mailto:[hidden email]>[hidden email] >(not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the >list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to manage >subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD ===================== To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD ===================== To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD |
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I will be out of the office until Tuesday May 14th. I will respond to your e-mail when I return. Thanks! |
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In reply to this post by Albert-Jan Roskam
Hi Albert-Jan,
I'm just an R newbie. I suffer stat-fright until I get comfortable with a package. Cheers, Steve -----Original Message----- From: Albert-Jan Roskam [mailto:[hidden email]] Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 5:21 AM To: Salbod, Mr. Stephen; [hidden email] Subject: Re: [SPSSX-L] R Hi Stephen, Why do you find Rcmdr tricky to install? options(repos=structure(c(CRAN="http://cran.xl-mirror.nl" ))) # if you don want to select a mirror install.packages(c("Rcmdr"), dependencies=TRUE) If you download all the uninstalled packages (.zip) you need to a network location, you can use the "repo" argument to download it from there. If I understood it correctly, you can set the environment R_LIBS_USER to a netwrok location that does not get wiped. Then, when you got a new image, you just need to set that variable (Win7: setx R_LIBS_USER=\\myserver\myshare\myblah, next time R starts up, it will look there for the installed packages. At first instance, R cmdr seems promising, but in the end I have rarely used it. IIRC, writing additional functionality (plugins) also requires TCL knowledge. Regards, Albert-Jan ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salbod, Mr. Stephen" <[hidden email]> > To: [hidden email] > Cc: > Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2013 1:32 AM > Subject: Re: [SPSSX-L] R > > Hi Bob, you might want to check out Rcmdr. Google to get installation notes. > It's got an interface like what you would expect from a statistical > package. But it is tricky to install and use. --Steve > > > PS At this moment that is exactly what I'm trying to do. Every time, at this > University, my computer gets reimaged I have to reinstall all my additional > programs. > > -----Original Message----- > From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bob > Green > Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 5:02 PM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: R > > I changed to R simply because I couldn't afford SPSS. Without any background > in programming the learning curve was extremely steep. I still struggle with > things. If you want to run a frequency count of all your variables and obtain > the respective percentages SPSS is way easier to use. Having said that R forces > you to look more carefully at what variables to include in analyses. > > They are totally different beasts in many ways. > > The user forums are also very different. I think this is a major issue, asking > an extremely naive question (and as a naive user), this can met with stony > silence or rebuke, though some people on the R list have been enormously > helpful. First impressions can make a big difference. > > > Bob > > > > > > > nAt 02:50 AM 9/05/2013, John F Hall wrote: >> I too downloaded R. Forget it: too much learning to be able to write >> sensible tutorials or for students to learn enough in 13 hours to be >> able to do anything useful. >> >> I taught survey processing and analysis using SPSS for 23 years from >> 1972 until I (early) retired in 1992, and I still use it in my website >> tutorials. My students got jobs: would they with R? Tell the business >> managers that (although in the UK the Deans in the Polytechnics which >> became Universities in 1992 were also part of corporate management). >> One of my ex-researchers was once promoted over my head by Stalinist >> senior management to be Director of Research (aka Business Manager, >> Research): when I repeated to her the late Angus Campbell's advice to >> me, "Never employ anyone whose job you couldn't take over if you > had >> to." she stormed off in a huff. >> >> I've said it before and I'll say it again: the SPSS rot started when >> they went after the business market and let marketing people act as >> their agents. I appreciate that the success of SPSSI was threatening >> the charitable status of the University of Chicago, but once IBM took >> over, academic users were doomed. IBM are only ever, and always have >> been, interested in >> profits: didn't anyone tell you? That's why so many academic >> institutions are turning to Stata, but will their students still get >> jobs? Tell the Deans/Business Managers that as well. >> >> John F Hall (Mr) >> [Retired academic survey researcher] >> >> Email: <mailto:[hidden email]>[hidden email] >> Website: >> <http://www.surveyresearch.weebly.com>www.surveyresearch.weebly.com >> Start >> page: >> <http://www.surveyresearch.weebly.com/spss-without-tears.html>www.surve >> yresearch.weebly.com/spss-without-tears.html >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: SPSSX(r) Discussion >> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Dr. Thomas W. MacFarland >> Sent: 08 May 2013 15:04 >> To: [hidden email] >> Subject: Re: R >> >> Stan and everyone else: >> >> SPSS is great software and I've been using it since the mid-1980s when >> it was housed at the University on a VAX machine, using vi as the >> editor (No - I don't think we need too many more posts related to the >> traffic thread.). Separate from the statistical analyses supported by >> SPSS, the ctables module alone is a pearl without price. >> >> Saying that, I've also moved new projects over to R whenever possible. >> >> Why? >> >> Diversification is good, if nothing else for self-protection. >> >> I am concerned that SPSS will soon price itself out of reach for many >> of us in higher education. >> >> Do you remember when Deans were the major decision-makers in higher >> education? Increasingly (at least here is the U.S.), higher education >> has become more corporate (even at the state schools and >> not-for-profits) and we now have business managers who have little to >> no classroom experience influencing decision-making, and some are now >> starting to question the high cost of SPSS license fees. >> >> So, both for administrative jobs as well as classroom teaching, I'm >> moving more activities over to R. >> >> Is R good software since those who develop the base package and >> external packages do not receive a paycheck for their efforts? We all >> have separate ideas, but I certainly respect those who work with >> missionary zeal as opposed to those who are only concerned about last >> quarter's profit statement, ship dates (think dBase IV), and today's >> stock price. >> >> Ultimately, however, the market will determine the winners and losers, >> whether the product is expensive or free. >> >> If you need a brief introduction to R please take a look at the videos >> listed below, even if they are slightly dated: >> >> Are You Ready for R - Open Source Software for Institutional Research >> <https://tegr.it/y/ty2b>https://tegr.it/y/ty2b >> Are You Ready for R - Background Information About R >> <https://tegr.it/y/ty15>https://tegr.it/y/ty15 >> Are You Ready for R - Orientation of This Training Session >> <https://tegr.it/y/ty0v>https://tegr.it/y/ty0v >> Are You Ready for R - Download R >> <https://tegr.it/y/ty0n>https://tegr.it/y/ty0n >> Are You Ready for R - Exposure to the R Interface >> <https://tegr.it/y/ty0b>https://tegr.it/y/ty0b >> Are You Ready for R - Use R in Interactive Mode >> <https://tegr.it/y/txzj>https://tegr.it/y/txzj >> Are You Ready for R - Use R Syntax in a .R Script File >> <https://tegr.it/y/txz1>https://tegr.it/y/txz1 >> Are You Ready for R - Import a .csv Spreadsheet-Type Data File into R >> <https://tegr.it/y/txyv>https://tegr.it/y/txyv >> Are You Ready for R - Organize the Data >> <https://tegr.it/y/txyn>https://tegr.it/y/txyn >> Are You Ready for R - Conduct a Visual Data Check >> <https://tegr.it/y/txwf>https://tegr.it/y/txwf >> Are You Ready for R - Supplemental R Packages >> <https://tegr.it/y/txw6>https://tegr.it/y/txw6 >> Are You Ready for R - Summary Descriptive Statistics >> <https://tegr.it/y/txvx>https://tegr.it/y/txvx >> Are You Ready for R - Breakout Descriptive Statistics >> <https://tegr.it/y/txvt>https://tegr.it/y/txvt >> Are You Ready for R - Use R for Student's t-Test >> <https://tegr.it/y/txvb>https://tegr.it/y/txvb >> Are You Ready for R - Use R for Oneway Analysis of Variance (ANOVA) >> <https://tegr.it/y/txux>https://tegr.it/y/txux >> Are You Ready for R - Use R for Multivariate Analysis of Variance >> (MANOVA) <https://tegr.it/y/txul>https://tegr.it/y/txul >> Are You Ready for R - Use R for Correlation and Measures of Association >> <https://tegr.it/y/txtj>https://tegr.it/y/txtj >> Are You Ready for R - Prepare to Exit, Save, and Later Retrieve This R >> Session <https://tegr.it/y/txrv>https://tegr.it/y/txrv >> Are You Ready for R - Demonstrate Batch Processing with a Script File >> <https://tegr.it/y/txrj>https://tegr.it/y/txrj >> >> Comment: The R tables package >> (<http://cran.r-project.org/web/packages/tables/vignettes/tables.pdf>ht >> tp://cran.r-project.org/web/packages/tables/vignettes/tables.pdf), >> specifically the tables::tabular() function, does not yet equal the >> SPSS ctables module, but it is getting close. When that happens SPSS >> will have an end-product rival that may be hard to hold back. >> >> Full Disclosure (and not a shameless plug): I have a R-based text >> (<http://www.springer.com/statistics/social+sciences+%26+law/book/978-1 >> -4614-2133-7>http://www.springer.com/statistics/social+sciences+%26+law >> /book/978-1-4614-2133-7) that is still available and a new text (R for >> biostatistics) will be available before too long. >> >> Best wishes. >> >> Tom >> >> >> ---------- >> Thomas W. MacFarland, Ed.D. >> Senior Research Associate; Institutional Effectiveness and Associate >> Professor Nova Southeastern University Voice 954-262-5395 >> <mailto:[hidden email]>[hidden email] >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: SPSSX(r) Discussion >> [<mailto:[hidden email]>mailto:[hidden email]] >> On Behalf Of David Marso >> Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 3:57 AM >> To: <mailto:[hidden email]>[hidden email] >> Subject: Re: R >> >> AGAIN INTERSPERSED: >> >> Stan Gorodenski wrote >> > On 5/7/2013 7:07 PM, Bruce Weaver wrote: >> >> I bet you'd get some very interesting responses if you posted > your >> >> question >> >> here: >> >> >> >> > <http://r.789695.n4.nabble.com/>http://r.789695.n4.nabble.com/ >> >> >> > >> > I am sure you are absolutely correct. :-) >> > >> > But, this raises another issue I have with R. The link you provide >> > is a discussion group. I have come to dislike having to rely solely >> > on discussion groups to get answers to questions. >> > >> > DMM: Well, there is always package documentation and various online >> > training resources. >> > >> > In astronomy there is a >> > new protocol called ASCOM. One has to rely completely on a >> > discussion group to get answers to questions. As a result one has to >> > deal with personalities and their willingness to help. >> > >> > DMM: I'll bet ASCOM has some sort of documentation. I don't >> > personally know anything about it and am not interested enough in >> > astronomy to bother researching the issue. >> > Personalities are like A$$#@!%$ everyone has one. I for one am >> > sometimes mistaken for an A$$#@!% due to my personality. >> > Willingness to help is a crapshoot. If you have a question that >> > maybe one person in the DG knows the answer, you might have a problem. >> > OTOH: There is this mysterious element in the universe called >> > reciprocity. Put in take out. >> > People who frequently take but don't reciprocate get to know the >> > A$$#@!% side of my personality. >> > >> > I get so tired of having to rephrase something. >> > >> > DMM: I get so tired of people who think they can rely on others >> > InterNeTelepathy and ESPss skills to read their minds when they >> > don't provide sufficient information to understand the issue much > or >> > less solve the problem. Phrase it explicitly with examples in the >> > first place and there is not so much of a need to rephrase. Lately >> > people in this group seem to think of it as a place to twitter their >> > plights rather than carefully explicate the nature of the issue, >> > what was tried, what failed, what came close, sample of data in/data > out. >> > Almost as though it is expected that the solvers here spend more >> > time thinking about the issue than the OP (I am almost tempted to >> > name some names). For these peeps I post one liners or >> subject them to the Socratic method. >> > >> > BTW Stan: You are not guilty of such. Your posted questions here >> > are typically well thought out and you take the effort to be clear >> > and do the heavy lifting WRT RTFM and background research prior to > posting. >> > >> > It is amazing how difficult communication can be at times. SPSS and >> > Stata, in contrast, have manuals that come from the companies. I >> > believe there are manuals for R, but they were not produced by a >> > company and so may be limited in their scope. >> > >> > DMM: You seem to relish the comfort of 'companies'. I for > one am >> > exploring open source options at every opportunity! For example, I >> > would rather use GIMP or ImageJ to do photo editing or generating my >> > video art then shell out several hundred dollars for PhotoShop. >> > Why would I spend a ton on upgrading M$ office when I can acquire >> > OpenOffice or NeoOffice for FREE. >> > Why would I dump $20+K on SPSS Modeller when I can DL Rapid Miner? >> > List goes on and on! >> > Yeah Stan, trust the 'companies'... They have your best > interest and >> > comfort at heart! >> > >> > I may be talking out >> > of ignorance regarding R, but that is my impression. There are two >> > extremes, ASCOM which totally relies on a discussion group, and SAS. >> > It is incredible the number of manuals SAS has. The last time I >> > checked about 12 years ago it would have taken about 2 or 3 feet of >> > manuals, probably even more, if one wanted to be complete (that is, >> > if one wants hard copies). >> > >> > DMM: AFAICK: you can likely find pretty in depth info by querying >> > something as simple as R Manuals >> > >> > <http://www.search.ask.com/web?q=R%20Manuals&o=15554&l=dis&qsrc=2871>h >> > ttp://www.search.ask.com/web?q=R%20Manuals&o=15554&l=dis&qsrc=2871 >> > >> > >> > Stan >> > >> > >> >> ;-) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Stan Gorodenski wrote >> >> >> >>> A number of individuals highly recommend R. I do not have much >> >>> inclination to switch to R (I had downloaded it about four > years >> >>> ago and didn't know where to go from there) for two > reasons. As >> >>> someone said, there is a steep learning curve. The other > reason is >> >>> that because R is freeware, I believe all the statistical >> >>> procedures were written by users. Is this correct? If so, I > feel >> >>> more comfortable with a package like SPSS or Stata because > there >> >>> is a profit motive, and because there is a profit motive these >> >>> companies have a definite interest in testing the product > before >> >>> release and correcting any errors after release. In other > words, >> >>> one can be more cerain the statistical results from the > various >> >>> procedures are correct. I do not think this can be said of R. > Is this correct? >> >>> Stan >> >>> >> >>> ===================== >> >>> To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to >> >>> >> >> >> >>> <mailto:LISTSERV@.UGA>LISTSERV@.UGA >> >>> >> >> >> >>> (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To > leave >> >>> the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of > commands >> >>> to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- >> >> -- >> >> Bruce Weaver >> >> >> >> > bweaver@ >> >> >> >> > <http://sites.google.com/a/lakeheadu.ca/bweaver/>http://sites.google.c >> om/a/lakeheadu.ca/bweaver/ >> >> >> >> "When all else fails, RTFM." >> >> >> >> NOTE: My Hotmail account is not monitored regularly. >> >> To send me an e-mail, please use the address shown above. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> View this message in context: >> >> >> <http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/R-tp5720058p5720060.htm >> >http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/R-tp5720058p5720060.htm >> >> l Sent from the SPSSX Discussion mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. >> >> >> >> ===================== >> >> To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to >> >> >> >> > <mailto:LISTSERV@.UGA>LISTSERV@.UGA >> >> > (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the >> >> command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a >> >> list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO >> >> REFCARD >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > ===================== >> > To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to >> >> > <mailto:LISTSERV@.UGA>LISTSERV@.UGA >> >> > (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave >> > the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to >> > manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- >> Please reply to the list and not to my personal email. >> Those desiring my consulting or training services please feel free to >> email me. >> --- >> "Nolite dare sanctum canibus neque mittatis margaritas vestras ante >> porcos ne forte conculcent eas pedibus suis." >> Cum es damnatorum possederunt porcos iens ut salire off sanguinum cliff >> in abyssum?" >> -- >> View this message in context: >> <http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/R-tp5720058p5720067.html >>> http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/R-tp5720058p5720067.html >> Sent from the SPSSX Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >> ===================== >> To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to >> <mailto:[hidden email]>[hidden email] >> (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the >> list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to manage >> subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD > > ===================== > To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to > [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the > command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of > commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD > > ===================== > To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to > [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the > command. To leave the list, send the command > SIGNOFF SPSSX-L > For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command > INFO REFCARD > ===================== To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD |
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Albert-Jan,
Even your description of how simple it is, does not appear all that simple. Dale -----Original Message----- From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Salbod, Mr. Stephen Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 2:07 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: R Hi Albert-Jan, I'm just an R newbie. I suffer stat-fright until I get comfortable with a package. Cheers, Steve -----Original Message----- From: Albert-Jan Roskam [mailto:[hidden email]] Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 5:21 AM To: Salbod, Mr. Stephen; [hidden email] Subject: Re: [SPSSX-L] R Hi Stephen, Why do you find Rcmdr tricky to install? options(repos=structure(c(CRAN="http://cran.xl-mirror.nl" ))) # if you don want to select a mirror install.packages(c("Rcmdr"), dependencies=TRUE) If you download all the uninstalled packages (.zip) you need to a network location, you can use the "repo" argument to download it from there. If I understood it correctly, you can set the environment R_LIBS_USER to a netwrok location that does not get wiped. Then, when you got a new image, you just need to set that variable (Win7: setx R_LIBS_USER=\\myserver\myshare\myblah, next time R starts up, it will look there for the installed packages. At first instance, R cmdr seems promising, but in the end I have rarely used it. IIRC, writing additional functionality (plugins) also requires TCL knowledge. Regards, Albert-Jan ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salbod, Mr. Stephen" <[hidden email]> > To: [hidden email] > Cc: > Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2013 1:32 AM > Subject: Re: [SPSSX-L] R > > Hi Bob, you might want to check out Rcmdr. Google to get installation notes. > It's got an interface like what you would expect from a statistical > package. But it is tricky to install and use. --Steve > > > PS At this moment that is exactly what I'm trying to do. Every time, > at this University, my computer gets reimaged I have to reinstall all > my additional programs. > > -----Original Message----- > From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf > Of Bob Green > Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 5:02 PM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: R > > I changed to R simply because I couldn't afford SPSS. Without any > background in programming the learning curve was extremely steep. I > still struggle with things. If you want to run a frequency count of > all your variables and obtain the respective percentages SPSS is way > easier to use. Having said that R forces you to look more carefully at what variables to include in analyses. > > They are totally different beasts in many ways. > > The user forums are also very different. I think this is a major > issue, asking an extremely naive question (and as a naive user), this > can met with stony silence or rebuke, though some people on the R list > have been enormously helpful. First impressions can make a big difference. > > > Bob > > > > > > > nAt 02:50 AM 9/05/2013, John F Hall wrote: >> I too downloaded R. Forget it: too much learning to be able to write >> sensible tutorials or for students to learn enough in 13 hours to be >> able to do anything useful. >> >> I taught survey processing and analysis using SPSS for 23 years from >> 1972 until I (early) retired in 1992, and I still use it in my >> website tutorials. My students got jobs: would they with R? Tell >> the business managers that (although in the UK the Deans in the >> Polytechnics which became Universities in 1992 were also part of corporate management). >> One of my ex-researchers was once promoted over my head by Stalinist >> senior management to be Director of Research (aka Business Manager, >> Research): when I repeated to her the late Angus Campbell's advice to >> me, "Never employ anyone whose job you couldn't take over if you > had >> to." she stormed off in a huff. >> >> I've said it before and I'll say it again: the SPSS rot started when >> they went after the business market and let marketing people act as >> their agents. I appreciate that the success of SPSSI was threatening >> the charitable status of the University of Chicago, but once IBM took >> over, academic users were doomed. IBM are only ever, and always have >> been, interested in >> profits: didn't anyone tell you? That's why so many academic >> institutions are turning to Stata, but will their students still get >> jobs? Tell the Deans/Business Managers that as well. >> >> John F Hall (Mr) >> [Retired academic survey researcher] >> >> Email: <mailto:[hidden email]>[hidden email] >> Website: >> <http://www.surveyresearch.weebly.com>www.surveyresearch.weebly.com >> Start >> page: >> <http://www.surveyresearch.weebly.com/spss-without-tears.html>www.sur >> ve yresearch.weebly.com/spss-without-tears.html >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: SPSSX(r) Discussion >> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Dr. Thomas W. >> MacFarland >> Sent: 08 May 2013 15:04 >> To: [hidden email] >> Subject: Re: R >> >> Stan and everyone else: >> >> SPSS is great software and I've been using it since the mid-1980s >> when it was housed at the University on a VAX machine, using vi as >> the editor (No - I don't think we need too many more posts related to >> the traffic thread.). Separate from the statistical analyses >> supported by SPSS, the ctables module alone is a pearl without price. >> >> Saying that, I've also moved new projects over to R whenever possible. >> >> Why? >> >> Diversification is good, if nothing else for self-protection. >> >> I am concerned that SPSS will soon price itself out of reach for many >> of us in higher education. >> >> Do you remember when Deans were the major decision-makers in higher >> education? Increasingly (at least here is the U.S.), higher >> education has become more corporate (even at the state schools and >> not-for-profits) and we now have business managers who have little to >> no classroom experience influencing decision-making, and some are now >> starting to question the high cost of SPSS license fees. >> >> So, both for administrative jobs as well as classroom teaching, I'm >> moving more activities over to R. >> >> Is R good software since those who develop the base package and >> external packages do not receive a paycheck for their efforts? We >> all have separate ideas, but I certainly respect those who work with >> missionary zeal as opposed to those who are only concerned about last >> quarter's profit statement, ship dates (think dBase IV), and today's >> stock price. >> >> Ultimately, however, the market will determine the winners and >> losers, whether the product is expensive or free. >> >> If you need a brief introduction to R please take a look at the >> videos listed below, even if they are slightly dated: >> >> Are You Ready for R - Open Source Software for Institutional Research >> <https://tegr.it/y/ty2b>https://tegr.it/y/ty2b >> Are You Ready for R - Background Information About R >> <https://tegr.it/y/ty15>https://tegr.it/y/ty15 >> Are You Ready for R - Orientation of This Training Session >> <https://tegr.it/y/ty0v>https://tegr.it/y/ty0v >> Are You Ready for R - Download R >> <https://tegr.it/y/ty0n>https://tegr.it/y/ty0n >> Are You Ready for R - Exposure to the R Interface >> <https://tegr.it/y/ty0b>https://tegr.it/y/ty0b >> Are You Ready for R - Use R in Interactive Mode >> <https://tegr.it/y/txzj>https://tegr.it/y/txzj >> Are You Ready for R - Use R Syntax in a .R Script File >> <https://tegr.it/y/txz1>https://tegr.it/y/txz1 >> Are You Ready for R - Import a .csv Spreadsheet-Type Data File into R >> <https://tegr.it/y/txyv>https://tegr.it/y/txyv >> Are You Ready for R - Organize the Data >> <https://tegr.it/y/txyn>https://tegr.it/y/txyn >> Are You Ready for R - Conduct a Visual Data Check >> <https://tegr.it/y/txwf>https://tegr.it/y/txwf >> Are You Ready for R - Supplemental R Packages >> <https://tegr.it/y/txw6>https://tegr.it/y/txw6 >> Are You Ready for R - Summary Descriptive Statistics >> <https://tegr.it/y/txvx>https://tegr.it/y/txvx >> Are You Ready for R - Breakout Descriptive Statistics >> <https://tegr.it/y/txvt>https://tegr.it/y/txvt >> Are You Ready for R - Use R for Student's t-Test >> <https://tegr.it/y/txvb>https://tegr.it/y/txvb >> Are You Ready for R - Use R for Oneway Analysis of Variance (ANOVA) >> <https://tegr.it/y/txux>https://tegr.it/y/txux >> Are You Ready for R - Use R for Multivariate Analysis of Variance >> (MANOVA) <https://tegr.it/y/txul>https://tegr.it/y/txul >> Are You Ready for R - Use R for Correlation and Measures of >> Association <https://tegr.it/y/txtj>https://tegr.it/y/txtj >> Are You Ready for R - Prepare to Exit, Save, and Later Retrieve This >> R Session <https://tegr.it/y/txrv>https://tegr.it/y/txrv >> Are You Ready for R - Demonstrate Batch Processing with a Script File >> <https://tegr.it/y/txrj>https://tegr.it/y/txrj >> >> Comment: The R tables package >> (<http://cran.r-project.org/web/packages/tables/vignettes/tables.pdf> >> ht tp://cran.r-project.org/web/packages/tables/vignettes/tables.pdf), >> specifically the tables::tabular() function, does not yet equal the >> SPSS ctables module, but it is getting close. When that happens SPSS >> will have an end-product rival that may be hard to hold back. >> >> Full Disclosure (and not a shameless plug): I have a R-based text >> (<http://www.springer.com/statistics/social+sciences+%26+law/book/978 >> -1 >> -4614-2133-7>http://www.springer.com/statistics/social+sciences+%26+l >> -4614-2133-7>aw >> /book/978-1-4614-2133-7) that is still available and a new text (R >> for >> biostatistics) will be available before too long. >> >> Best wishes. >> >> Tom >> >> >> ---------- >> Thomas W. MacFarland, Ed.D. >> Senior Research Associate; Institutional Effectiveness and Associate >> Professor Nova Southeastern University Voice 954-262-5395 >> <mailto:[hidden email]>[hidden email] >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: SPSSX(r) Discussion >> [<mailto:[hidden email]>mailto:[hidden email]] >> On Behalf Of David Marso >> Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 3:57 AM >> To: <mailto:[hidden email]>[hidden email] >> Subject: Re: R >> >> AGAIN INTERSPERSED: >> >> Stan Gorodenski wrote >> > On 5/7/2013 7:07 PM, Bruce Weaver wrote: >> >> I bet you'd get some very interesting responses if you posted > your >> >> question >> >> here: >> >> >> >> > <http://r.789695.n4.nabble.com/>http://r.789695.n4.nabble.com/ >> >> >> > >> > I am sure you are absolutely correct. :-) > > But, this raises >> another issue I have with R. The link you provide > is a discussion >> group. I have come to dislike having to rely solely > on discussion >> groups to get answers to questions. >> > >> > DMM: Well, there is always package documentation and various >> online > training resources. >> > >> > In astronomy there is a >> > new protocol called ASCOM. One has to rely completely on a > >> discussion group to get answers to questions. As a result one has to >> > deal with personalities and their willingness to help. >> > >> > DMM: I'll bet ASCOM has some sort of documentation. I don't > >> personally know anything about it and am not interested enough in > >> astronomy to bother researching the issue. >> > Personalities are like A$$#@!%$ everyone has one. I for one am > >> sometimes mistaken for an A$$#@!% due to my personality. >> > Willingness to help is a crapshoot. If you have a question that >> > maybe one person in the DG knows the answer, you might have a problem. >> > OTOH: There is this mysterious element in the universe called > >> reciprocity. Put in take out. >> > People who frequently take but don't reciprocate get to know the >> > A$$#@!% side of my personality. >> > >> > I get so tired of having to rephrase something. >> > >> > DMM: I get so tired of people who think they can rely on others >> > InterNeTelepathy and ESPss skills to read their minds when they > >> don't provide sufficient information to understand the issue much > or >> > less solve the problem. Phrase it explicitly with examples in the >> > first place and there is not so much of a need to rephrase. Lately >> > people in this group seem to think of it as a place to twitter >> their > plights rather than carefully explicate the nature of the >> issue, > what was tried, what failed, what came close, sample of >> data in/data > out. >> > Almost as though it is expected that the solvers here spend more >> > time thinking about the issue than the OP (I am almost tempted to >> > name some names). For these peeps I post one liners or subject >> them to the Socratic method. >> > >> > BTW Stan: You are not guilty of such. Your posted questions here >> > are typically well thought out and you take the effort to be clear >> > and do the heavy lifting WRT RTFM and background research prior to > posting. >> > >> > It is amazing how difficult communication can be at times. SPSS >> and > Stata, in contrast, have manuals that come from the companies. >> I > believe there are manuals for R, but they were not produced by a >> > company and so may be limited in their scope. >> > >> > DMM: You seem to relish the comfort of 'companies'. I for > one am >> > exploring open source options at every opportunity! For example, >> I > would rather use GIMP or ImageJ to do photo editing or >> generating my > video art then shell out several hundred dollars for PhotoShop. >> > Why would I spend a ton on upgrading M$ office when I can acquire >> > OpenOffice or NeoOffice for FREE. >> > Why would I dump $20+K on SPSS Modeller when I can DL Rapid Miner? >> > List goes on and on! >> > Yeah Stan, trust the 'companies'... They have your best > interest and >> > comfort at heart! >> > >> > I may be talking out >> > of ignorance regarding R, but that is my impression. There are two >> > extremes, ASCOM which totally relies on a discussion group, and SAS. >> > It is incredible the number of manuals SAS has. The last time I > >> checked about 12 years ago it would have taken about 2 or 3 feet of >> > manuals, probably even more, if one wanted to be complete (that is, >> > if one wants hard copies). >> > >> > DMM: AFAICK: you can likely find pretty in depth info by querying >> > something as simple as R Manuals > >> > <http://www.search.ask.com/web?q=R%20Manuals&o=15554&l=dis&qsrc=2871>h >> > ttp://www.search.ask.com/web?q=R%20Manuals&o=15554&l=dis&qsrc=2871 >> > >> > >> > Stan >> > >> > >> >> ;-) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Stan Gorodenski wrote >> >> >> >>> A number of individuals highly recommend R. I do not have much >> >>> inclination to switch to R (I had downloaded it about four > years >> >>> ago and didn't know where to go from there) for two > reasons. As >> >>> someone said, there is a steep learning curve. The other > reason is >> >>> that because R is freeware, I believe all the statistical >>> >> procedures were written by users. Is this correct? If so, I > feel >> >>> more comfortable with a package like SPSS or Stata because > there >> >>> is a profit motive, and because there is a profit motive these >> >>> companies have a definite interest in testing the product > before >> >>> release and correcting any errors after release. In other > words, >> >>> one can be more cerain the statistical results from the > various >> >>> procedures are correct. I do not think this can be said of R. > Is this correct? >> >>> Stan >> >>> >> >>> ===================== >> >>> To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to >>> >> >> >>> <mailto:LISTSERV@.UGA>LISTSERV@.UGA >> >>> >> >> >> >>> (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To > leave >> >>> the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of > commands >> >>> to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- >> -- >> Bruce Weaver >> >> >> > bweaver@ >> >> >> >> > <http://sites.google.com/a/lakeheadu.ca/bweaver/>http://sites.google.c >> om/a/lakeheadu.ca/bweaver/ >> >> >> >> "When all else fails, RTFM." >> >> >> >> NOTE: My Hotmail account is not monitored regularly. >> >> To send me an e-mail, please use the address shown above. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> View this message in context: >> >> >> >> <http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/R-tp5720058p5720060.ht >> m >> >http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/R-tp5720058p5720060.ht >> m >> l Sent from the SPSSX Discussion mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. >> >> >> >> ===================== >> >> To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to >> >> >> > <mailto:LISTSERV@.UGA>LISTSERV@.UGA >> >> > (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the >> command. To >> leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a >> list of >> commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO >> REFCARD >> >> >> >> >> > > ===================== > To manage your >> subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to >> >> > <mailto:LISTSERV@.UGA>LISTSERV@.UGA >> >> > (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave >> > the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands >> to > manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- >> Please reply to the list and not to my personal email. >> Those desiring my consulting or training services please feel free to >> email me. >> --- >> "Nolite dare sanctum canibus neque mittatis margaritas vestras ante >> porcos ne forte conculcent eas pedibus suis." >> Cum es damnatorum possederunt porcos iens ut salire off sanguinum >> cliff in abyssum?" >> -- >> View this message in context: >> <http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/R-tp5720058p5720067.ht >> ml >>> http://spssx-discussion.1045642.n5.nabble.com/R-tp5720058p5720067.ht >>> ml >> Sent from the SPSSX Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >> ===================== >> To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to >> <mailto:[hidden email]>[hidden email] >> (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the >> list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to >> manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD > > ===================== > To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to > [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except > the command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a > list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO > REFCARD > > ===================== > To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to > [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except > the command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a > list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO > REFCARD > ===================== To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD ===================== To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD |
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