Reporting statistics correctly

[Charlotte-9]

Dear all,

Can anyone suggest any good links for detailing the correct way to write a
statistical paper/report statistics.  I'm a mathematician and not a
statistician by training, so am new to this field and want to make sure
I'm doing it right as I realise there's a lot of 'bad stats' out there.
In particular, I am currently using chi-square tests, McNemar, Cochran and
logistic regression.

Any suggestions would be appreciated!
Thanks in advance,

Lou

[Ornelas, Fermin]

You could look at the Journal of American Statistical Association. Maybe
visit amstat.org

Fermin Ornelas, Ph.D.
Management Analyst III, AZ DES
Tel: [phone]
E-mail: [hidden email]


-----Original Message-----
From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
Lou
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 4:09 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Reporting statistics correctly

Dear all,

Can anyone suggest any good links for detailing the correct way to write
a
statistical paper/report statistics.  I'm a mathematician and not a
statistician by training, so am new to this field and want to make sure
I'm doing it right as I realise there's a lot of 'bad stats' out there.
In particular, I am currently using chi-square tests, McNemar, Cochran
and
logistic regression.

Any suggestions would be appreciated!
Thanks in advance,

Lou

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[Marta García-Granero]

Hi Charlotte

Although I'd strongly recommend you a book (How to Report Satistics in
Medicine, by Lang & Secic, ACP Series), these two links can be useful:

HOW TO WRITE A PAPER IN SCIENTIFIC JOURNAL STYLE AND FORMAT
http://abacus.bates.edu/~ganderso/biology/resources/writing/HTWtoc.html

Take a look specially at the sections "Reporting Statistical Results in
Your Paper" and "Tables and Figures".

The next one is also interesting, since it reflects the experience of many
statistical referees that tell what they dislike more in papers
presenting statistical results.

HOW TO UPSET THE STATISTICAL REFEREE:
http://www-users.york.ac.uk/~mb55/talks/upset.htm

L> Can anyone suggest any good links for detailing the correct way to write a
L> statistical paper/report statistics.  I'm a mathematician and not a
L> statistician by training, so am new to this field and want to make sure
L> I'm doing it right as I realise there's a lot of 'bad stats' out there.
L> In particular, I am currently using chi-square tests, McNemar, Cochran and
L> logistic regression.

--
Regards,
Dr. Marta García-Granero,PhD           mailto:[hidden email]
Statistician

---
"It is unwise to use a statistical procedure whose use one does
not understand. SPSS syntax guide cannot supply this knowledge, and it
is certainly no substitute for the basic understanding of statistics
and statistical thinking that is essential for the wise choice of
methods and the correct interpretation of their results".

(Adapted from WinPepi manual - I'm sure Joe Abrahmson will not mind)

[Charlotte-9]

Dear all,

Thanks for the advice.

Marta: many thanks for the book recommendation and links.  Strangely
enough, I had a quick look on that second link and in the first line it
mentions Donald Singer who, I guess you could say is one of my colleagues,
(even though I don't actually know him) as we work at the same place!

All the best,

Charlotte (aka Lou)

On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 16:06:55 +0200, =?ISO-8859-15?B?
TWFydGEgR2FyY+1hLUdyYW5lcm8=?= <[hidden email]> wrote:

>Hi Charlotte
>
>Although I'd strongly recommend you a book (How to Report Satistics in
>Medicine, by Lang & Secic, ACP Series), these two links can be useful:
>
>HOW TO WRITE A PAPER IN SCIENTIFIC JOURNAL STYLE AND FORMAT
>http://abacus.bates.edu/~ganderso/biology/resources/writing/HTWtoc.html
>
>Take a look specially at the sections "Reporting Statistical Results in
>Your Paper" and "Tables and Figures".
>
>The next one is also interesting, since it reflects the experience of many
>statistical referees that tell what they dislike more in papers
>presenting statistical results.
>
>HOW TO UPSET THE STATISTICAL REFEREE:
>http://www-users.york.ac.uk/~mb55/talks/upset.htm
>
>L> Can anyone suggest any good links for detailing the correct way to

write a
>L> statistical paper/report statistics.  I'm a mathematician and not a
>L> statistician by training, so am new to this field and want to make sure
>L> I'm doing it right as I realise there's a lot of 'bad stats' out there.
>L> In particular, I am currently using chi-square tests, McNemar, Cochran
and

>L> logistic regression.
>
>--
>Regards,
>Dr. Marta Garc�a-Granero,PhD           mailto:[hidden email]
>Statistician
>
>---
>"It is unwise to use a statistical procedure whose use one does
>not understand. SPSS syntax guide cannot supply this knowledge, and it
>is certainly no substitute for the basic understanding of statistics
>and statistical thinking that is essential for the wise choice of
>methods and the correct interpretation of their results".
>
>(Adapted from WinPepi manual - I'm sure Joe Abrahmson will not mind)

[Marta García-Granero]

Hi again

I shouldn't click on "Send" that fast. I forgot a very good one:

Statistics Notes: Presentation of numerical data:
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/312/7030/572

Also, I recommend you, as Fermin Ornelas said, to take a look at the
author's instructions in the journal you are going to send your paper
to. Lancet's instructions are quite good (although a bit general
and vage), and I know that Nature was going to improve theirs after
an incendiary paper was published that pointed out that a lot of
papers (including a lot published in Nature) had very low quality or
badly reported statistics.

This is an excerpt from Lancet's instructions concerning statistics
(it is part of a PowerPoint presentation on statistics I use at a
basic statistics course at the Universitary Clinic of the University
of Navarra):

"Describe statistical methods with enough detail to enable a
knowledgeable reader with access to the original data to verify the
reported results.

When possible, quantify findings and present them with appropriate
indicators of measurement error or uncertainty (such as confidence
intervals). Avoid relying solely on statistical hypothesis testing,
such as the use of P values, which fails to convey important
quantitative information.

Discuss the eligibility of experimental subjects. Give details about
randomization. Describe the methods for and success of any blinding of
observations. Report complications of treatment. Give numbers of
observations. Report losses to observation (such as dropouts from a
clinical trial).

References for the design of the study and statistical methods should
be to standard works when possible (with pages stated) rather than to
papers in which the designs or methods were originally reported.

Specify any general-use computer programs used.

Put a general description of methods in the Methods section. When data
are summarized in the Results section, specify the statistical methods
used to analyze them.

Restrict tables and figures to those needed to explain the argument of
the paper and to assess its support. Use graphs as an alternative to
tables with many entries; do not duplicate data in graphs and tables.

Avoid non technical uses of technical terms in statistics, such as
"random" (which implies a randomizing device), "normal,"
"significant," "correlations," and "sample.”

Define statistical terms, abbreviations, and most symbols."

OF> Can anyone suggest any good links for detailing the correct way to write
OF> a
OF> statistical paper/report statistics.  I'm a mathematician and not a
OF> statistician by training, so am new to this field and want to make sure
OF> I'm doing it right as I realise there's a lot of 'bad stats' out there.
OF> In particular, I am currently using chi-square tests, McNemar, Cochran
OF> and
OF> logistic regression.


--
Regards,
Dr. Marta García-Granero,PhD           mailto:[hidden email]
Statistician

---
"It is unwise to use a statistical procedure whose use one does
not understand. SPSS syntax guide cannot supply this knowledge, and it
is certainly no substitute for the basic understanding of statistics
and statistical thinking that is essential for the wise choice of
methods and the correct interpretation of their results".

(Adapted from WinPepi manual - I'm sure Joe Abrahmson will not mind)

[Albert-Jan Roskam]

The APA Publication manual is also commonly used,
although it;s not limited to statistics:
http://www.amazon.com/Publication-Manual-American-Psychological-Association/dp/1557987912/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b/103-2541946-8788653
http://tinyurl.com/2kwbq9

Albert-Jan

--- Lou <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> Thanks for the advice.
>
> Marta: many thanks for the book recommendation and
> links.  Strangely
> enough, I had a quick look on that second link and
> in the first line it
> mentions Donald Singer who, I guess you could say is
> one of my colleagues,
> (even though I don't actually know him) as we work
> at the same place!
>
> All the best,
>
> Charlotte (aka Lou)
>
> On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 16:06:55 +0200, =?ISO-8859-15?B?
> TWFydGEgR2FyY+1hLUdyYW5lcm8=?=
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> >Hi Charlotte
> >
> >Although I'd strongly recommend you a book (How to
> Report Satistics in
> >Medicine, by Lang & Secic, ACP Series), these two
> links can be useful:
> >
> >HOW TO WRITE A PAPER IN SCIENTIFIC JOURNAL STYLE
> AND FORMAT
>
>http://abacus.bates.edu/~ganderso/biology/resources/writing/HTWtoc.html
> >
> >Take a look specially at the sections "Reporting
> Statistical Results in
> >Your Paper" and "Tables and Figures".
> >
> >The next one is also interesting, since it reflects
> the experience of many
> >statistical referees that tell what they dislike
> more in papers
> >presenting statistical results.
> >
> >HOW TO UPSET THE STATISTICAL REFEREE:
> >http://www-users.york.ac.uk/~mb55/talks/upset.htm
> >
> >L> Can anyone suggest any good links for detailing
> the correct way to
> write a
> >L> statistical paper/report statistics.  I'm a
> mathematician and not a
> >L> statistician by training, so am new to this
> field and want to make sure
> >L> I'm doing it right as I realise there's a lot of
> 'bad stats' out there.
> >L> In particular, I am currently using chi-square
> tests, McNemar, Cochran
> and
> >L> logistic regression.
> >
> >--
> >Regards,
> >Dr. Marta Garc�a-Granero,PhD
> mailto:[hidden email]
> >Statistician
> >
> >---
> >"It is unwise to use a statistical procedure whose
> use one does
> >not understand. SPSS syntax guide cannot supply
> this knowledge, and it
> >is certainly no substitute for the basic
> understanding of statistics
> >and statistical thinking that is essential for the
> wise choice of
> >methods and the correct interpretation of their
> results".
> >
> >(Adapted from WinPepi manual - I'm sure Joe
> Abrahmson will not mind)
>

Cheers!
Albert-Jan

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Did you know that 87.166253% of all statistics claim a precision of results that is not justified by the method employed? [HELMUT RICHTER]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



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[Albert-Jan Roskam]

The APA Publication manual is also commonly used,
although it;s not limited to statistics:
http://www.amazon.com/Publication-Manual-American-Psychological-Association/dp/1557987912/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b/103-2541946-8788653
http://tinyurl.com/2kwbq9

Albert-Jan

--- Lou <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> Thanks for the advice.
>
> Marta: many thanks for the book recommendation and
> links.  Strangely
> enough, I had a quick look on that second link and
> in the first line it
> mentions Donald Singer who, I guess you could say is
> one of my colleagues,
> (even though I don't actually know him) as we work
> at the same place!
>
> All the best,
>
> Charlotte (aka Lou)
>
> On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 16:06:55 +0200, =?ISO-8859-15?B?
> TWFydGEgR2FyY+1hLUdyYW5lcm8=?=
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> >Hi Charlotte
> >
> >Although I'd strongly recommend you a book (How to
> Report Satistics in
> >Medicine, by Lang & Secic, ACP Series), these two
> links can be useful:
> >
> >HOW TO WRITE A PAPER IN SCIENTIFIC JOURNAL STYLE
> AND FORMAT
>
>http://abacus.bates.edu/~ganderso/biology/resources/writing/HTWtoc.html
> >
> >Take a look specially at the sections "Reporting
> Statistical Results in
> >Your Paper" and "Tables and Figures".
> >
> >The next one is also interesting, since it reflects
> the experience of many
> >statistical referees that tell what they dislike
> more in papers
> >presenting statistical results.
> >
> >HOW TO UPSET THE STATISTICAL REFEREE:
> >http://www-users.york.ac.uk/~mb55/talks/upset.htm
> >
> >L> Can anyone suggest any good links for detailing
> the correct way to
> write a
> >L> statistical paper/report statistics.  I'm a
> mathematician and not a
> >L> statistician by training, so am new to this
> field and want to make sure
> >L> I'm doing it right as I realise there's a lot of
> 'bad stats' out there.
> >L> In particular, I am currently using chi-square
> tests, McNemar, Cochran
> and
> >L> logistic regression.
> >
> >--
> >Regards,
> >Dr. Marta Garc�a-Granero,PhD
> mailto:[hidden email]
> >Statistician
> >
> >---
> >"It is unwise to use a statistical procedure whose
> use one does
> >not understand. SPSS syntax guide cannot supply
> this knowledge, and it
> >is certainly no substitute for the basic
> understanding of statistics
> >and statistical thinking that is essential for the
> wise choice of
> >methods and the correct interpretation of their
> results".
> >
> >(Adapted from WinPepi manual - I'm sure Joe
> Abrahmson will not mind)
>

Cheers!
Albert-Jan

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Did you know that 87.166253% of all statistics claim a precision of results that is not justified by the method employed? [HELMUT RICHTER]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



____________________________________________________________________________________
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[Albert-Jan Roskam]

The APA Publication manual is also commonly used,
although it;s not limited to statistics:
http://www.amazon.com/Publication-Manual-American-Psychological-Association/dp/1557987912/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b/103-2541946-8788653
http://tinyurl.com/2kwbq9

Albert-Jan

--- Lou <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> Thanks for the advice.
>
> Marta: many thanks for the book recommendation and
> links.  Strangely
> enough, I had a quick look on that second link and
> in the first line it
> mentions Donald Singer who, I guess you could say is
> one of my colleagues,
> (even though I don't actually know him) as we work
> at the same place!
>
> All the best,
>
> Charlotte (aka Lou)
>
> On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 16:06:55 +0200, =?ISO-8859-15?B?
> TWFydGEgR2FyY+1hLUdyYW5lcm8=?=
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> >Hi Charlotte
> >
> >Although I'd strongly recommend you a book (How to
> Report Satistics in
> >Medicine, by Lang & Secic, ACP Series), these two
> links can be useful:
> >
> >HOW TO WRITE A PAPER IN SCIENTIFIC JOURNAL STYLE
> AND FORMAT
>
>http://abacus.bates.edu/~ganderso/biology/resources/writing/HTWtoc.html
> >
> >Take a look specially at the sections "Reporting
> Statistical Results in
> >Your Paper" and "Tables and Figures".
> >
> >The next one is also interesting, since it reflects
> the experience of many
> >statistical referees that tell what they dislike
> more in papers
> >presenting statistical results.
> >
> >HOW TO UPSET THE STATISTICAL REFEREE:
> >http://www-users.york.ac.uk/~mb55/talks/upset.htm
> >
> >L> Can anyone suggest any good links for detailing
> the correct way to
> write a
> >L> statistical paper/report statistics.  I'm a
> mathematician and not a
> >L> statistician by training, so am new to this
> field and want to make sure
> >L> I'm doing it right as I realise there's a lot of
> 'bad stats' out there.
> >L> In particular, I am currently using chi-square
> tests, McNemar, Cochran
> and
> >L> logistic regression.
> >
> >--
> >Regards,
> >Dr. Marta Garc�a-Granero,PhD
> mailto:[hidden email]
> >Statistician
> >
> >---
> >"It is unwise to use a statistical procedure whose
> use one does
> >not understand. SPSS syntax guide cannot supply
> this knowledge, and it
> >is certainly no substitute for the basic
> understanding of statistics
> >and statistical thinking that is essential for the
> wise choice of
> >methods and the correct interpretation of their
> results".
> >
> >(Adapted from WinPepi manual - I'm sure Joe
> Abrahmson will not mind)
>

Cheers!
Albert-Jan

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Did you know that 87.166253% of all statistics claim a precision of results that is not justified by the method employed? [HELMUT RICHTER]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



____________________________________________________________________________________
Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html

[Albert-Jan Roskam]

The APA Publication manual is also commonly used,
although it;s not limited to statistics:
http://www.amazon.com/Publication-Manual-American-Psychological-Association/dp/1557987912/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b/103-2541946-8788653
http://tinyurl.com/2kwbq9

Albert-Jan

--- Lou <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> Thanks for the advice.
>
> Marta: many thanks for the book recommendation and
> links.  Strangely
> enough, I had a quick look on that second link and
> in the first line it
> mentions Donald Singer who, I guess you could say is
> one of my colleagues,
> (even though I don't actually know him) as we work
> at the same place!
>
> All the best,
>
> Charlotte (aka Lou)
>
> On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 16:06:55 +0200, =?ISO-8859-15?B?
> TWFydGEgR2FyY+1hLUdyYW5lcm8=?=
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> >Hi Charlotte
> >
> >Although I'd strongly recommend you a book (How to
> Report Satistics in
> >Medicine, by Lang & Secic, ACP Series), these two
> links can be useful:
> >
> >HOW TO WRITE A PAPER IN SCIENTIFIC JOURNAL STYLE
> AND FORMAT
>
>http://abacus.bates.edu/~ganderso/biology/resources/writing/HTWtoc.html
> >
> >Take a look specially at the sections "Reporting
> Statistical Results in
> >Your Paper" and "Tables and Figures".
> >
> >The next one is also interesting, since it reflects
> the experience of many
> >statistical referees that tell what they dislike
> more in papers
> >presenting statistical results.
> >
> >HOW TO UPSET THE STATISTICAL REFEREE:
> >http://www-users.york.ac.uk/~mb55/talks/upset.htm
> >
> >L> Can anyone suggest any good links for detailing
> the correct way to
> write a
> >L> statistical paper/report statistics.  I'm a
> mathematician and not a
> >L> statistician by training, so am new to this
> field and want to make sure
> >L> I'm doing it right as I realise there's a lot of
> 'bad stats' out there.
> >L> In particular, I am currently using chi-square
> tests, McNemar, Cochran
> and
> >L> logistic regression.
> >
> >--
> >Regards,
> >Dr. Marta Garc�a-Granero,PhD
> mailto:[hidden email]
> >Statistician
> >
> >---
> >"It is unwise to use a statistical procedure whose
> use one does
> >not understand. SPSS syntax guide cannot supply
> this knowledge, and it
> >is certainly no substitute for the basic
> understanding of statistics
> >and statistical thinking that is essential for the
> wise choice of
> >methods and the correct interpretation of their
> results".
> >
> >(Adapted from WinPepi manual - I'm sure Joe
> Abrahmson will not mind)
>

Cheers!
Albert-Jan

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Did you know that 87.166253% of all statistics claim a precision of results that is not justified by the method employed? [HELMUT RICHTER]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



____________________________________________________________________________________
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[Albert-Jan Roskam]

The APA Publication manual is also commonly used,
although it;s not limited to statistics:
http://www.amazon.com/Publication-Manual-American-Psychological-Association/dp/1557987912/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b/103-2541946-8788653
http://tinyurl.com/2kwbq9

Albert-Jan

--- Lou <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> Thanks for the advice.
>
> Marta: many thanks for the book recommendation and
> links.  Strangely
> enough, I had a quick look on that second link and
> in the first line it
> mentions Donald Singer who, I guess you could say is
> one of my colleagues,
> (even though I don't actually know him) as we work
> at the same place!
>
> All the best,
>
> Charlotte (aka Lou)
>
> On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 16:06:55 +0200, =?ISO-8859-15?B?
> TWFydGEgR2FyY+1hLUdyYW5lcm8=?=
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> >Hi Charlotte
> >
> >Although I'd strongly recommend you a book (How to
> Report Satistics in
> >Medicine, by Lang & Secic, ACP Series), these two
> links can be useful:
> >
> >HOW TO WRITE A PAPER IN SCIENTIFIC JOURNAL STYLE
> AND FORMAT
>
>http://abacus.bates.edu/~ganderso/biology/resources/writing/HTWtoc.html
> >
> >Take a look specially at the sections "Reporting
> Statistical Results in
> >Your Paper" and "Tables and Figures".
> >
> >The next one is also interesting, since it reflects
> the experience of many
> >statistical referees that tell what they dislike
> more in papers
> >presenting statistical results.
> >
> >HOW TO UPSET THE STATISTICAL REFEREE:
> >http://www-users.york.ac.uk/~mb55/talks/upset.htm
> >
> >L> Can anyone suggest any good links for detailing
> the correct way to
> write a
> >L> statistical paper/report statistics.  I'm a
> mathematician and not a
> >L> statistician by training, so am new to this
> field and want to make sure
> >L> I'm doing it right as I realise there's a lot of
> 'bad stats' out there.
> >L> In particular, I am currently using chi-square
> tests, McNemar, Cochran
> and
> >L> logistic regression.
> >
> >--
> >Regards,
> >Dr. Marta Garc�a-Granero,PhD
> mailto:[hidden email]
> >Statistician
> >
> >---
> >"It is unwise to use a statistical procedure whose
> use one does
> >not understand. SPSS syntax guide cannot supply
> this knowledge, and it
> >is certainly no substitute for the basic
> understanding of statistics
> >and statistical thinking that is essential for the
> wise choice of
> >methods and the correct interpretation of their
> results".
> >
> >(Adapted from WinPepi manual - I'm sure Joe
> Abrahmson will not mind)
>

Cheers!
Albert-Jan

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Did you know that 87.166253% of all statistics claim a precision of results that is not justified by the method employed? [HELMUT RICHTER]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



____________________________________________________________________________________
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with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
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[Albert-Jan Roskam]

The APA Publication manual is also commonly used,
although it;s not limited to statistics:
http://www.amazon.com/Publication-Manual-American-Psychological-Association/dp/1557987912/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b/103-2541946-8788653
http://tinyurl.com/2kwbq9

Albert-Jan

--- Lou <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> Thanks for the advice.
>
> Marta: many thanks for the book recommendation and
> links.  Strangely
> enough, I had a quick look on that second link and
> in the first line it
> mentions Donald Singer who, I guess you could say is
> one of my colleagues,
> (even though I don't actually know him) as we work
> at the same place!
>
> All the best,
>
> Charlotte (aka Lou)
>
> On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 16:06:55 +0200, =?ISO-8859-15?B?
> TWFydGEgR2FyY+1hLUdyYW5lcm8=?=
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> >Hi Charlotte
> >
> >Although I'd strongly recommend you a book (How to
> Report Satistics in
> >Medicine, by Lang & Secic, ACP Series), these two
> links can be useful:
> >
> >HOW TO WRITE A PAPER IN SCIENTIFIC JOURNAL STYLE
> AND FORMAT
>
>http://abacus.bates.edu/~ganderso/biology/resources/writing/HTWtoc.html
> >
> >Take a look specially at the sections "Reporting
> Statistical Results in
> >Your Paper" and "Tables and Figures".
> >
> >The next one is also interesting, since it reflects
> the experience of many
> >statistical referees that tell what they dislike
> more in papers
> >presenting statistical results.
> >
> >HOW TO UPSET THE STATISTICAL REFEREE:
> >http://www-users.york.ac.uk/~mb55/talks/upset.htm
> >
> >L> Can anyone suggest any good links for detailing
> the correct way to
> write a
> >L> statistical paper/report statistics.  I'm a
> mathematician and not a
> >L> statistician by training, so am new to this
> field and want to make sure
> >L> I'm doing it right as I realise there's a lot of
> 'bad stats' out there.
> >L> In particular, I am currently using chi-square
> tests, McNemar, Cochran
> and
> >L> logistic regression.
> >
> >--
> >Regards,
> >Dr. Marta Garc�a-Granero,PhD
> mailto:[hidden email]
> >Statistician
> >
> >---
> >"It is unwise to use a statistical procedure whose
> use one does
> >not understand. SPSS syntax guide cannot supply
> this knowledge, and it
> >is certainly no substitute for the basic
> understanding of statistics
> >and statistical thinking that is essential for the
> wise choice of
> >methods and the correct interpretation of their
> results".
> >
> >(Adapted from WinPepi manual - I'm sure Joe
> Abrahmson will not mind)
>

Cheers!
Albert-Jan

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Did you know that 87.166253% of all statistics claim a precision of results that is not justified by the method employed? [HELMUT RICHTER]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



____________________________________________________________________________________
TV dinner still cooling?
Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.
http://tv.yahoo.com/

[Albert-Jan Roskam]

The APA Publication manual is also commonly used,
although it;s not limited to statistics:
http://www.amazon.com/Publication-Manual-American-Psychological-Association/dp/1557987912/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b/103-2541946-8788653
http://tinyurl.com/2kwbq9

Albert-Jan

--- Lou <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> Thanks for the advice.
>
> Marta: many thanks for the book recommendation and
> links.  Strangely
> enough, I had a quick look on that second link and
> in the first line it
> mentions Donald Singer who, I guess you could say is
> one of my colleagues,
> (even though I don't actually know him) as we work
> at the same place!
>
> All the best,
>
> Charlotte (aka Lou)
>
> On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 16:06:55 +0200, =?ISO-8859-15?B?
> TWFydGEgR2FyY+1hLUdyYW5lcm8=?=
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> >Hi Charlotte
> >
> >Although I'd strongly recommend you a book (How to
> Report Satistics in
> >Medicine, by Lang & Secic, ACP Series), these two
> links can be useful:
> >
> >HOW TO WRITE A PAPER IN SCIENTIFIC JOURNAL STYLE
> AND FORMAT
>
>http://abacus.bates.edu/~ganderso/biology/resources/writing/HTWtoc.html
> >
> >Take a look specially at the sections "Reporting
> Statistical Results in
> >Your Paper" and "Tables and Figures".
> >
> >The next one is also interesting, since it reflects
> the experience of many
> >statistical referees that tell what they dislike
> more in papers
> >presenting statistical results.
> >
> >HOW TO UPSET THE STATISTICAL REFEREE:
> >http://www-users.york.ac.uk/~mb55/talks/upset.htm
> >
> >L> Can anyone suggest any good links for detailing
> the correct way to
> write a
> >L> statistical paper/report statistics.  I'm a
> mathematician and not a
> >L> statistician by training, so am new to this
> field and want to make sure
> >L> I'm doing it right as I realise there's a lot of
> 'bad stats' out there.
> >L> In particular, I am currently using chi-square
> tests, McNemar, Cochran
> and
> >L> logistic regression.
> >
> >--
> >Regards,
> >Dr. Marta Garc�a-Granero,PhD
> mailto:[hidden email]
> >Statistician
> >
> >---
> >"It is unwise to use a statistical procedure whose
> use one does
> >not understand. SPSS syntax guide cannot supply
> this knowledge, and it
> >is certainly no substitute for the basic
> understanding of statistics
> >and statistical thinking that is essential for the
> wise choice of
> >methods and the correct interpretation of their
> results".
> >
> >(Adapted from WinPepi manual - I'm sure Joe
> Abrahmson will not mind)
>

Cheers!
Albert-Jan

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Did you know that 87.166253% of all statistics claim a precision of results that is not justified by the method employed? [HELMUT RICHTER]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



____________________________________________________________________________________
Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367

[Richard Ristow]

At 10:06 AM 3/29/2007, Marta García-Granero wrote:

>Although I'd strongly recommend you a book (How
>to Report Satistics in Medicine, by Lang &
>Secic, ACP Series), these two links can be useful:
[...]
>The next one reflects the experience of many
>statistical referees that tell what they dislike
>more in papers presenting statistical results.
>
>HOW TO UPSET THE STATISTICAL REFEREE:
>http://www-users.york.ac.uk/~mb55/talks/upset.htm

That is an interesting one, and then some. He
does make a couple of points I'd wonder about.
Among upsetting practices, he includes

>'Chi-square test analyses of ordered categorical data.'
>
>What was meant is that we often have categorical
>data where the categories are ordered in some
>way, such as physical condition being classified
>as 'poor', 'fair', 'good' or 'excellent'. The
>usual chi-squared test for a contingency table
>ignores this ordering and tests the null
>hypothesis of no relationship of any sort
>between the variables. This is usually a
>mistake, but an understandable one. Many
>textbooks use examples with ordered categories
>to illustrate chi-squared tests.

Analysts (definitely including me) don't use
ordinal tests enough, in those cases. However,
I'd thought that if chi-square is a mistake, it's
one of limited importance: using chi-square
instead of an ordinal test reduces statistical
power, but if a difference is found by
chi-square, the result may be trusted.

I've found it useful so supplement an ordinal
test with a chi-square in any case. It's helped
me catch a couple of cases where the effect was
not unidirectional, but rather to push
measurements away from the middle of the scale, toward the ends.

>'Rate per 1000 person-years = 3 (95% CI -3 to 9).'
>
>The rate of something per year cannot be
>negative, so the calculation of the confidence
>interval has produced an impossible lower limit.
>This happens because researchers use methods
>designed for the analysis of large samples or
>large numbers of events to small samples or
>small numbers of events. They calculate standard
>errors and then calculate the confidence
>interval using the Normal distribution, as the
>observed value ± 1.96 standard errors. But if
>the number of events or the sample size is not
>large enough for this Normal approximation we
>can get negative lower limits.

Now, if a value, structurally, cannot be
negative, then the true value isn't negative.
That's true enough. However, I've thought of
"(95% CI -3 to 9)" as a legitimate expression, in
confidence-interval language, of "no significant (non-zero) effect."

Bland attributes the phenomenon to "sample size
not large enough for the Normal approximation,"
but I think here it's more complicated, and this
isn't quite accurate. You'll get a confidence
interval overlapping zero whenever the
combination of effect size, variability in the
data, and sample size, do not support rejecting
the hypothesis of a zero effect at the .05 level.
That can readily happen with a sample size large
enough, by ordinary criteria, to justify the Normal approximation.

Raise the sample size enough, and you'll almost
always get a confidence interval that doesn't
overlap zero. (What wouldn't we do, if sample
size were free?) But that isn't about whether a
Normal approximation is adequate. It'll happen
because there's almost always some underlying
effect, even if its size is far below practical
significance, and increasing the sample size
will, sooner or later, demonstrate its existence.

Marta, THANK you. Every time we turn around, you
find us something fascinating.

-With warmest regards,
  Richard

[Bob Schacht-3]

At 07:09 AM 3/29/2007, Richard Ristow wrote:

>At 10:06 AM 3/29/2007, Marta García-Granero wrote:
>
>. . .
>>HOW TO UPSET THE STATISTICAL REFEREE:
>>http://www-users.york.ac.uk/~mb55/talks/upset.htm
>
>That is an interesting one, and then some. He
>does make a couple of points I'd wonder about.
>Among upsetting practices, he includes
>
>>'Chi-square test analyses of ordered categorical data.'
>>
>>What was meant is that we often have categorical
>>data where the categories are ordered in some
>>way, such as physical condition being classified
>>as 'poor', 'fair', 'good' or 'excellent'. The
>>usual chi-squared test for a contingency table
>>ignores this ordering and tests the null
>>hypothesis of no relationship of any sort
>>between the variables. This is usually a
>>mistake, but an understandable one. Many
>>textbooks use examples with ordered categories
>>to illustrate chi-squared tests.
>
>Analysts (definitely including me) don't use
>ordinal tests enough, in those cases. However,
>I'd thought that if chi-square is a mistake, it's
>one of limited importance: using chi-square
>instead of an ordinal test reduces statistical
>power, but if a difference is found by
>chi-square, the result may be trusted.

Agreed.

>I've found it useful so supplement an ordinal
>test with a chi-square in any case. It's helped
>me catch a couple of cases where the effect was
>not unidirectional, but rather to push
>measurements away from the middle of the scale, toward the ends. . . .

This is a good observation. I have seen a number of distributions in my
data lately that are strikingly bimodal, with modes at the extremes on the
ordinal line. But most of the ordinal statistics I've seen are written
about ranks, and that doesn't seem appropriate for comparing Likert scales,
are they? What ordinal tests do you use?

Bob

Robert M. Schacht, Ph.D. <[hidden email]>
Pacific Basin Rehabilitation Research & Training Center
1268 Young Street, Suite #204
Research Center, University of Hawaii
Honolulu, HI 96814

[David Hitchin]

> >I've found it useful so supplement an ordinal
> >test with a chi-square in any case. It's helped
> >me catch a couple of cases where the effect was
> >not unidirectional, but rather to push
> >measurements away from the middle of the scale, toward the ends. . .
>

OK, but strictly this needs a correction because of multiple testing.

[Kornbrot, Diana]

But the lancet page on how to report statistics  has been removed
Replaced by copious instructions on how to use the submitting/reviewing
software
d


On 30/3/07 01:39, "Bob Schacht" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> At 07:09 AM 3/29/2007, Richard Ristow wrote:
>> >At 10:06 AM 3/29/2007, Marta García-Granero wrote:
>> >
>> >. . .
>>> >>HOW TO UPSET THE STATISTICAL REFEREE:
>>> >>http://www-users.york.ac.uk/~mb55/talks/upset.htm
>> >
>> >That is an interesting one, and then some. He
>> >does make a couple of points I'd wonder about.
>> >Among upsetting practices, he includes
>> >
>>> >>'Chi-square test analyses of ordered categorical data.'
>>> >>
>>> >>What was meant is that we often have categorical
>>> >>data where the categories are ordered in some
>>> >>way, such as physical condition being classified
>>> >>as 'poor', 'fair', 'good' or 'excellent'. The
>>> >>usual chi-squared test for a contingency table
>>> >>ignores this ordering and tests the null
>>> >>hypothesis of no relationship of any sort
>>> >>between the variables. This is usually a
>>> >>mistake, but an understandable one. Many
>>> >>textbooks use examples with ordered categories
>>> >>to illustrate chi-squared tests.
>> >
>> >Analysts (definitely including me) don't use
>> >ordinal tests enough, in those cases. However,
>> >I'd thought that if chi-square is a mistake, it's
>> >one of limited importance: using chi-square
>> >instead of an ordinal test reduces statistical
>> >power, but if a difference is found by
>> >chi-square, the result may be trusted.
>
> Agreed.
>
>> >I've found it useful so supplement an ordinal
>> >test with a chi-square in any case. It's helped
>> >me catch a couple of cases where the effect was
>> >not unidirectional, but rather to push
>> >measurements away from the middle of the scale, toward the ends. . . .
>
> This is a good observation. I have seen a number of distributions in my
> data lately that are strikingly bimodal, with modes at the extremes on the
> ordinal line. But most of the ordinal statistics I've seen are written
> about ranks, and that doesn't seem appropriate for comparing Likert scales,
> are they? What ordinal tests do you use?
>
> Bob
>
> Robert M. Schacht, Ph.D. <[hidden email]>
> Pacific Basin Rehabilitation Research & Training Center
> 1268 Young Street, Suite #204
> Research Center, University of Hawaii
> Honolulu, HI 96814
>

Professor Diana Kornbrot
Evaluation Co-ordinator, Blended Learning Unit
University of Hertfordshire
College Lane, Hatfield, Hertfordshire AL10 9AB, UK

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