comparing between to within subjects factor

[sun.sonny71]

Dear all,

I want to compare a between subjects factor to a within subjects factor in
a repeated measures analysis (i.e., I am interested whether one is
significantly more important than the other).

Can you please direct me to any references how this can be done in SPSS?

THANK YOU!

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[Bruce Weaver]

sun.sonny71 wrote

Dear all,

I want to compare a between subjects factor to a within subjects factor in
a repeated measures analysis (i.e., I am interested whether one is
significantly more important than the other).

Can you please direct me to any references how this can be done in SPSS?

THANK YOU!

What do you mean by "more important"?

[sun.sonny71]

>> Dear all,
>>
>> I want to compare a between subjects factor to a within subjects factor in
>> a repeated measures analysis (i.e., I am interested whether one is
>> significantly more important than the other).
>>
>> Can you please direct me to any references how this can be done in SPSS?
>>
>> THANK YOU!


>What do you mean by "more important"?


I mean whether one explains significantly more variance than the other (H0:
the effect of both factors is the same; H1: one effect is larger than the
other). I guess I cannot simply divide the two MS...

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[Swank, Paul R]

Think of this as a mixed model with within subjects at level one and between subjects at level two and then estimate he variance components using the mixed procedure. Snijders & Bosker (1999) discuss apportioning variance ar each level.

Snijders T. & Bosker, R. (1999). Multilevel Analysis: An introduction to basic and advanced multilevel modeling. Thousand Oaks, CA:Sage.

Dr. Paul R. Swank,
Professor and Director of Research
Children's Learning Institute
University of Texas Health Science Center-Houston


-----Original Message-----
From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of sun
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 11:07 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: comparing between to within subjects factor

Dear all,

I want to compare a between subjects factor to a within subjects factor in
a repeated measures analysis (i.e., I am interested whether one is
significantly more important than the other).

Can you please direct me to any references how this can be done in SPSS?

THANK YOU!

=====================
To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to
[hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the
command. To leave the list, send the command
SIGNOFF SPSSX-L
For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command
INFO REFCARD

=====================
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[Bruce Weaver]

Swank, Paul R wrote

Think of this as a mixed model with within subjects at level one and between subjects at level two and then estimate he variance components using the mixed procedure. Snijders & Bosker (1999) discuss apportioning variance ar each level.

Snijders T. & Bosker, R. (1999). Multilevel Analysis: An introduction to basic and advanced multilevel modeling. Thousand Oaks, CA:Sage.

Here's another book that gives a somewhat gentler introduction (IMO) to multilevel models:

Applied Multilevel Analysis: A Practical Guide. Jos WR Twisk. Cambridge University Press, UK 2006, ISBN 100521614989 (PB), ISBN 100521849756 (HB).

I found Snijders & Bosker much easier to read after I'd read Twisk's book.

[sun.sonny71]

Thank you very much!!! The suggestion to approach it from a mixed model
perspective makes perfect sense to me.

However, is there a way I can employ an equality constraint between the
effects of the between and within subject factor in SPSS (using mixed
models)?

E.g., the same product of two companies A and B was rated by 100 people
(product = within subjects factor). The raters belong to two different
groups (between subjects factor). I want to test whether the total effect
of product is significantly different from the effect of group membership.

I know how to implement equality constraints between continous predictors
in regression analysis, but I am unsure about categorical variables
(possibly with more than two levels).

It appears to be a simple problem, but somhow I am lost... so any ideas
are greatly appreciated!












On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 07:12:45 -0700, Bruce Weaver <[hidden email]>
wrote:

>Swank, Paul R wrote:
>>
>> Think of this as a mixed model with within subjects at level one and
>> between subjects at level two and then estimate he variance components
>> using the mixed procedure. Snijders & Bosker (1999) discuss apportioning
>> variance ar each level.
>>
>> Snijders T. & Bosker, R. (1999). Multilevel Analysis: An introduction to
>> basic and advanced multilevel modeling. Thousand Oaks, CA:Sage.
>>
>>
>
>Here's another book that gives a somewhat gentler introduction (IMO) to
>multilevel models:
>
>Applied Multilevel Analysis: A Practical Guide. Jos WR Twisk. Cambridge
>University Press, UK 2006, ISBN 100521614989 (PB), ISBN 100521849756 (HB).
>
>I found Snijders & Bosker much easier to read after I'd read Twisk's book.
>
>
>
>-----
>--
>Bruce Weaver
>[hidden email]
>http://sites.google.com/a/lakeheadu.ca/bweaver/
>"When all else fails, RTFM."
>
>NOTE:  My Hotmail account is for posting only, and is not monitored
>regularly.
>If you wish to send me an e-mail, please use the address shown in my sig
>file.
>--
>View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/comparing-between-to-

within-subjects-factor-tp25279941p25295072.html
>Sent from the SPSSX Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>=====================
>To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to
>[hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the
>command. To leave the list, send the command
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[Swank, Paul R]

Given that the tests of the variance components can be pretty flaky anyway, I'm not sure if I would want to trust a test of the differences. The only way I could think of to approach it might be to use a multilevel SEM program such as Mplus.

Dr. Paul R. Swank,
Professor and Director of Research
Children's Learning Institute
University of Texas Health Science Center-Houston


-----Original Message-----
From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of sun
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 7:16 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: comparing between to within subjects factor

Thank you very much!!! The suggestion to approach it from a mixed model
perspective makes perfect sense to me.

However, is there a way I can employ an equality constraint between the
effects of the between and within subject factor in SPSS (using mixed
models)?

E.g., the same product of two companies A and B was rated by 100 people
(product = within subjects factor). The raters belong to two different
groups (between subjects factor). I want to test whether the total effect
of product is significantly different from the effect of group membership.

I know how to implement equality constraints between continous predictors
in regression analysis, but I am unsure about categorical variables
(possibly with more than two levels).

It appears to be a simple problem, but somhow I am lost... so any ideas
are greatly appreciated!












On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 07:12:45 -0700, Bruce Weaver <[hidden email]>
wrote:

>Swank, Paul R wrote:
>>
>> Think of this as a mixed model with within subjects at level one and
>> between subjects at level two and then estimate he variance components
>> using the mixed procedure. Snijders & Bosker (1999) discuss apportioning
>> variance ar each level.
>>
>> Snijders T. & Bosker, R. (1999). Multilevel Analysis: An introduction to
>> basic and advanced multilevel modeling. Thousand Oaks, CA:Sage.
>>
>>
>
>Here's another book that gives a somewhat gentler introduction (IMO) to
>multilevel models:
>
>Applied Multilevel Analysis: A Practical Guide. Jos WR Twisk. Cambridge
>University Press, UK 2006, ISBN 100521614989 (PB), ISBN 100521849756 (HB).
>
>I found Snijders & Bosker much easier to read after I'd read Twisk's book.
>
>
>
>-----
>--
>Bruce Weaver
>[hidden email]
>http://sites.google.com/a/lakeheadu.ca/bweaver/
>"When all else fails, RTFM."
>
>NOTE:  My Hotmail account is for posting only, and is not monitored
>regularly.
>If you wish to send me an e-mail, please use the address shown in my sig
>file.
>--
>View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/comparing-between-to-

within-subjects-factor-tp25279941p25295072.html
>Sent from the SPSSX Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>=====================
>To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to
>[hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the
>command. To leave the list, send the command
>SIGNOFF SPSSX-L
>For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command
>INFO REFCARD

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=====================
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